Birdie (00:00)
And our report actually states that 81% check that policy first. And so free, obviously, is the best, right? We all want free things. But to be frank, we all know that labor and fuel and transportation and all of these costs have gone up. So unfortunately, it’s not realistic to always expect free returns. So if you’re not going to be able to offer free returns,

Returns, you have to be able to offer a convenient return method.

Shelley E. Kohan (00:54)
Hi everybody, thanks for joining our weekly podcast. I’m Shelley Kohan and I’m very excited to welcome Birdie Smith, who is the head of sales for Happy Returns. Welcome, Birdie.

Birdie (01:05)
Thank you so much, Shelley. Really excited to be here today.

Shelley E. Kohan (01:08)
I am so thrilled to have you here. I will mention to our audience, Happy Returns is a UPS owned company, which you specialize in box-free, label-free, drop-off returns at nearly, I think it’s 10,000, maybe more at this point. 10,000 return, yeah, return bar

Birdie (01:27)
Ten thousand. Yep, exactly.

Shelley E. Kohan (01:30)
locations. So you have the UPS store, I know Ulta Beauty, I was in there the other day.

You have an Alta Beauty

Birdie (01:35)
Mm-hmm.

Shelley E. Kohan (01:36)
Staples and on and on and on. So I love I love it when I shop with a retailer that has happy returns. It just

Birdie (01:46)
That’s the idea, the brand recognition. When you see the little yellow smiley face, people get so excited.

Shelley E. Kohan (01:52)
It is, it’s exciting. So last year returns hit about $850 billion, which is no big shocker, but wow, that’s a lot. And I think we’re still hovering around the 19% for online returns. So today what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna talk a little bit about returns as we head into holiday, which is you know big return time of year. but also we’ll talk about why returns now shape the purchasing path and the journey that the customer’s on. we’ll talk a little bit about return fraud.

both authentic fa fraud and fraud that is you know customers not doing ethically the right thing type of fraud.

Birdie (02:30)
Mm-hmm.

Shelley E. Kohan (02:31)
And then my favorite topic for today, which is the last topic, is why smart retailers treat returns as a growth lever. So let’s jump right in. And I know Birdie, you have this philosophy about how commerce has a new front door, which is return. So tell us a little bit about that.

Birdie (02:52)
Yeah, of course. So as we’ve seen over the last few years, when people are purchasing online, they’re not just buying from your website.

They’re buying from all over the place. They’re buying from marketplaces. They’re buying from TikTok Shop. They’re using AI agents. And they’re also shopping on your website. So we think about this new front door as this opportunity for customers to shop from a variety of different places, which is awesome for the retailer because they’re giving their customers so much more exposure. But what no one’s really thought about yet until now is what happens when these items that they’re purchasing aren’t fitting? What are they gonna do with them? And what does that customer experience look like?

when they have to get those items back. So it’s awesome for the retailer to be able to give that opportunity and get more exposure. But what we’re really wanting to help them do is optimize the reverse logistics side of things.

Shelley E. Kohan (03:41)
No, that’s great. And I know you just had recently a huge announcement, which I think will make many

Birdie (03:46)
We did.

Shelley E. Kohan (03:49)
consumers very happy, is you just launched with TikTok shop. Tell us about that.

Birdie (03:53)
We did.

Yeah, so we are the preferred box-free, label-free partner for TikTok shop. So what that means is any purchase that you were to make on a regular retailer, you know you love that happy returns experience. You know, have that on TikTok shop. So regardless of where you’re purchasing, you can have that consistent experience on the back end.

Shelley E. Kohan (04:14)
No, that’s great. Okay, so I want to go back to something you said. So I recently gave a talk at the ISEM, it’s the fashions business school in as part of the University of Navarra in Spain. And I’m disappointed in myself because I forgot to mention one thing. I was talking about A AI agents or AI assistants and how consumers

Birdie (04:34)
Mm-hmm.

Shelley E. Kohan (04:35)
are using them to shop. What I forgot to mention, which I want you to talk about, is are AI agents making returns now?

Birdie (04:44)
So there’s this thing called agentic returns. And this is this automated experience where it’s an AI bot that can r do this return for you. and so what we need to do is regardless of where they are making that return, if they’re going back to that chat bot, if they’re going back to AI where they figured out where to buy that.

item, they need to have a consistent experience regardless of where they’re doing that return. So it’s wild. People are going to AI and saying, help me find the coolest, latest black sweater or compare these two sweaters and help me purchase it. And they’re purchasing it right there. And then when it arrives to them, they say, wait, where did I purchase this? I need to go back to that source to return it. And it hasn’t even crossed their mind how they’re going to actually execute that.

Shelley E. Kohan (05:29)
That’s just amazing to me because I didn’t think about it, but I should have thought about that. So now we have AI agents that are helping to make returns. So retailers really have to think about how do they then become the return of choice, so to speak, right?

Birdie (05:42)
Exactly.

Shelley E. Kohan (05:44)
Yeah. Okay, so I wanna ask you about the TikTok shop launch. That’s a real tongue twister.

Birdie (05:50)
That’s a mouthful, right? Say that three times fast.

Shelley E. Kohan (05:55)
So why did you launch now and what were some of the sellers? And I would imagine that the smaller companies on TikTok shop had a bigger problem with dealing with returns. So tell us a little bit about why now and what sellers were struggling with before.

Birdie (06:11)
Yeah, for sure. So this might surprise you, maybe, maybe not. But what we learned in our study is that more than half of retailers are selling on TikTok shop. That’s a big amount. And of that, more than half of Gen Z shoppers are on TikTok shop. They’re the ones that really have this buying power.

And so this is exposure for brands that wouldn’t get it otherwise. They’re small upcoming brands, or maybe they’re really big brands that want to use influencers to push certain products at a certain time. And so it’s really giving more exposure to these retailers and that they wouldn’t have had on their own website.

So I was actually talking to a few of my friends about this last week. What are you buying on TikTok shop, right? It’s really things that you wouldn’t have gone to that retailer’s actual website to purchase because you’re learning about different brands. You’re learning about new beauty products or different styles of jeans or the it bag for the winter. And so when you’re on there, it’s a quick impulsive buy and they want it and they want it fast. And so TikTok really has

This buying power that has taken a hold of all of us, primarily in the Gen Z market and for the retailers. And so we really found an opportunity where we wanted to make it easy for the shoppers and give them a consistent experience.

Shelley E. Kohan (07:30)
That’s great. So what’s interesting is we probably don’t have any data yet about returns on TikTok, but what you just mentioned is so true with consumer behavior. I do this myself. I’m scrolling through TikTok, something pops up that I wasn’t searching for. So back to the impulse buy. I don’t usually know the brand that pops up. sometimes I do, but oftentimes I don’t. So I’m buying a brand that’s unknown. The sizing might be different, and it’s an impulse.

in post buy. So I would imagine that the returns are gonna be a lot higher on TikTok shop than what we’re seeing in e commerce.

Birdie (08:04)
Yeah. We don’t have the data yet on what that return rate looks like. But what we are seeing is because it’s an impulse buy, it tends to be an impulse return. When you’re on in bed at 10 PM scrolling and you see an influencer in these cute jeans, they’re not might not fit you as well as they did that person, right? And so you need to be able to find a way to get that item back. but that isn’t happening when you’re just purchasing impulsively, like you mentioned, from a brand that you might not be familiar with.

Shelley E. Kohan (08:33)
Yeah, that’s so true. So I think the other thing, so returns are now part of the buying decision. I’ve heard that for a few years, but I think the amazing new report that just dropped, Happy Returns Return Report, says that 82% of shoppers say free returns are an important aspect and consideration when they’re buying something online. Is that correct?

Birdie (08:56)
Yeah.

It totally is. I don’t know about you, but every time I go to purchase something online, I look at the return policy before I go by.

And our report actually states that 81% check that policy first. And so free, obviously, is the best, right? We all want free things. But to be frank, we all know that labor and fuel and transportation and all of these costs have gone up. So unfortunately, it’s not realistic to always expect free returns. So if you’re not going to be able to offer free returns,

Returns, you have to be able to offer a convenient return method.

Obviously, your shoppers want free, but how can you balance that with your business needs? And I think honestly, that’s what’s one of my favorite parts about our returns happen study. Year over year, we’re now in our fifth year of this study. And it really takes into account and looks at the comparison of what shoppers want and what retailers want because they’re not always the same thing. I, as a shopper, want a free return. I, as a brand, might not be able to afford that free return. So if I

can’t, I want to be able to give you at least a convenient experience if it has to be at a certain expense.

Shelley E. Kohan (10:04)
Absolutely. I think right now, like you said, with all the impacts right now of cost of goods with the tariffs and the production costs

Birdie (10:12)
Fuel.

Shelley E. Kohan (10:13)
and the labor costs and fuel’s gonna be a killer right now this season for holiday. So I think a lot of retailers are forced to,

Birdie (10:21)
Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (10:21)
I don’t know about force, but are really looking towards charging for returns. Some some retailers and brands have already started charging for returns, you know, nominal amounts, but something to cover, offset that cost. So

I do think that when you’re looking at I consumers that are shopping, they’re really looking at free or easy convenient returns. I

Birdie (10:42)
Mm-hmm.

Shelley E. Kohan (10:43)
think it kind of goes hand in hand because right now convenience is a big trait with today’s shopper, being able to easily, right?

Birdie (10:53)
Yep, for sure. And when you look at the return policy, they may offer free returns, but it might be going back to that retailer store because they want that store foot traffic, right? And so they might charge something different if you offer a QR code or if you offer a print label. So they have different ways to have fees in certain capacities or offer free in a certain capacity. And that’s really why so many people look at the policy before they’re actually buying, because they want to understand what they’re signing up for. And then that also

It helps them decide where they actually gonna buy it.

Shelley E. Kohan (11:26)
Yeah,

for sure. Is bracketing still a big issue? And are consumers really looking at bracketing as a method of shopping online? ‘Cause that is a huge problem with returns is just the fact that these consumers are buying multiple sizes and then sending most of them back.

Birdie (11:44)
Yeah, for sure. You know, honestly, I think it’s never gonna go away.

Sizing at every retailer is gonna be different, right? You may be a small medium in one brand and you may be a medium large in another brand. So you’re gonna buy two different sizes to try it on. Where you really see problems is when somebody’s buying five different sizes. I was shopping online the other day and I put a small and a medium in my cart, and the retailer said, Are you sure you want both of those? Based on what you’ve bought in the past, here’s the size that we suggest.

Which I think is awesome, but not every retailer can do that. And so I think we have to accept that people are gonna buy multiple sizes, but how can we protect against not returning all of them and helping educate to keep the items that do actually fit? Because we see when you have that experience and you really enjoy and you find what you wanted from purchasing at that retailer, you’re gonna come back and buy again. So I think it’s a little bit of both. I I don’t think that we’re gonna ever get rid of it. but I think that retailers can plan accordingly to manage.

Shelley E. Kohan (12:47)
Yeah, definitely two big things they can do because I know a lot of fashion retailers are struggling with this is one, make the return process easy. Happy returns can do that. And or I love that idea of suggesting based on what you’ve bought in the past, based on your sizing, here’s what size

Birdie (13:04)
Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (13:04)
we recommend before you hit that buy button.

Birdie (13:07)
It’s pretty cool.

Shelley E. Kohan (13:09)
Yeah, that’s awesome. Okay, so and do you think that the Gen Z customer thinks differently about returns than maybe the Gen Xers, millennials?

Birdie (13:21)
I do. I think so because as I mentioned, more than half of Gen Z is shopping on TikTok shop. And so they’re making this impulse buy, right? And

I don’t know about you, but my mom is not shopping on TikTok shop. She that scares her. She does, it wouldn’t even download it, wouldn’t touch a link from there. And so I think you’re gonna have this mix of people that buy impulsively from apps, from AI. And then you’re also gonna have some old school that wanna go on the website and want to purchase directly there. and so I think as a retailer, you really have to think about how can I accommodate all ends of the spectrum, but recognize that Gen Z right now really has that.

purchasing power, so you do need to focus and prioritize on them.

Shelley E. Kohan (14:06)
Definitely think that because of the way that Gen Z was raised, soon to be Gen Alpha. I don’t think Gen Alpha’s returning things yet, but they might be.

Birdie (14:15)
Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (14:17)
but they they’re they’re wired to think immediate, like they want immediacy. And I can

Birdie (14:22)
Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (14:22)
imagine having this conversation with my son. if you want to return it, you have to drive back, you know, 15 miles and go to the store. He would say, I’m not doing that. There’s no way I’m gonna do that. So I think this convenience thing is a big thing. And I know in the report.

That just came out, I was shocked to find out just in two years how consumers are wanting to spend they were they’re not willing to invest as many miles in the return. In other words, you know, I think two years ago, consumers were more willing to drive nine miles to return something, and this year it’s like under eight.

Birdie (14:59)
Mm-hmm. Convenience is the name of the game. And and you

Shelley E. Kohan (15:02)
So

Birdie (15:03)
think about it too, like when you buy something online, you don’t care how it gets to you. You just care when it gets to you, right? But it’s interesting because on the reverse logistics side of the house, people have like true visceral reactions to

return policies that aren’t easy. And that’s really what’s driving that buying process. So it’s it’s just interesting to think about both sides of making that purchase where I say, I don’t care how you get it to me, just get it to me by the day and the time that I need it. But when I’m returning it, if you make me go any way out of my way, I’m gonna be so annoyed and I don’t know that I want to shop with you again. Good luck.

Shelley E. Kohan (15:40)
Okay,

let’s

talk about return fraud. All right. So we

Birdie (15:42)
Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (15:43)
have different types of return fraud. I don’t even want to call it return fraud. We have fraud, which is like the organized rings and the real return fraud. And then

Birdie (15:52)
Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (15:52)
we have consumers that kind of, I don’t know, quote unquote bend the rules of

Birdie (15:55)
Abuse.

Shelley E. Kohan (15:55)
it. A views. Okay, thank you. I don’t want to call them

Birdie (15:58)
Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (15:58)
fraudulent. so tell me a little bit about that. I think that the return fraud is like 10% of returns. Is that about right?

Birdie (16:06)
Eight percent is what our study found, which is crazy. That’s pretty

Shelley E. Kohan (16:08)
Eight. Excellent.

Birdie (16:10)
high. Yeah. And so we do think about this in two different buckets. So when we think about fraud, we think about mailing back an empty box. We think about sending back a different brand sweater, a duplicate, tampering with the label. Like you are actually bending the rules of the law when you are making a return. That is fraud.

Abuse, we think about you’re taking advantage of the policy. So you’re buying a dress and you’re wearing it to a wedding and then you’re returning it back, right? So the there’s two different ways to think about this. And fraud really is is what blows my mind is how significant it is these days. And in the report, how many people actually admit to

Taking part in these fraud rings. And it’s really happening. And so we really want to look out and support these retailers because what we’re finding is these fraudsters, when they do it with one brand, they’re doing it with every brand. And then they’re going on the dark web and they’re talking about it and they’re sharing it. And so there are these circles, and people are getting a hold of it and they’re understanding and they’re working together to try to game the systems.

Shelley E. Kohan (17:20)
That’s so fascinating

that there’s a dark web that is figuring out how to bend the return rules. Although a lot of what you mentioned is really to me fraud, you know, changing prices, duping out products, all of that.

Birdie (17:33)
Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (17:33)
The one thing that I thought here this might surprise you, but the most shocking number on the report, the root new returns report, the most shocking number, I was flabbergasted by it, is that only two percent, two percent of retailers think that they are a

effectively able to measure and detect fraud.

Birdie (17:54)
Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. and you know what’s wild is because they’re

Sending this item back, and then it’s coming to a warehouse, and they’ve got all of these returns, and they’re so focused on getting items out the door to sell to generate revenue, it’s really hard to slow down and take the time to inspect the item, confirm that it’s the right item, give the refund, all of those things. And that’s really where we want to help support the retailer to say, you don’t have to worry about that. Let us be your fraud defense for you right up front. And so when you do things like

Offering a box-free, label-free return, it’s so much less likely that I’m gonna take a dress to someone at the UPS store after I’ve worn it to a wedding, right? It’s so much easier for me to put it in a box and ship it away. I’m gonna feel less guilty. I can probably get away with it. But when I have to go give it to someone in person, that helps stop that immediately. The second piece of it is where we’re thinking about verifying in person. We’re scanning a barcode to say, is this actually the black dress that you bought online? Or are

Trying to return a cheap Amazon dress when it should have been a nicer brand

Shelley E. Kohan (19:02)
No

Birdie (19:02)
dress, right? So there’s that second layer. And then the third layer is: well, did you start the return online in California, but now you’re dropping it off in New York? That’s weird. That doesn’t make sense. So there’s a lot of different layers that we can put in place together to try to help protect these retailers.

Shelley E. Kohan (19:22)
So

interesting. Well, I also think so. All of that is great. So that’s going to help detect fraud. But we also have like, I what do you call this? Innocent fraud. You know, I bought two pairs of shoes. I legitimately was going to return one of them. And I just picked up the wrong shoe box. And

Birdie (19:39)
Right.

Shelley E. Kohan (19:39)
so I went to the happy returns. I went to UPS. They did the scanning. It was happy returns. And the guy at the UPS store said, this isn’t the right shoe. And I’m like,

What do you mean it’s not the right shoe? And I looked at I said, my God, you’re right. It’s not the right shoe. I picked up I’m so sorry. And then I’m like, I’m so sorry, I’ll bring it back. But it actually helped me, the consumer, because I

Birdie (19:55)
Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (19:59)
would have been mad if I sent the shoe I wanted back.

Birdie (20:02)
Exactly.

Shelley E. Kohan (20:02)
The one it helps the consumer. And the second thing it does from a retailer perspective, they just saved a ton of money on fuel, packaging, return. They didn’t have now they don’t have

Birdie (20:12)
Right. It’s expensive.

Shelley E. Kohan (20:15)
it’s expensive and they would have to

Done it twice, they would have had to send it back, and then I would have it would have been a big mess. So I was actually very

Birdie (20:21)
Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (20:21)
appreciative that they checked my box. Yeah.

Birdie (20:24)
Love that. So you want to know

something wild. I don’t know if this blew your mind as much as it did mine. But in the report, they said that more than half of Gen Z admits to this true fraud behavior. But what’s most wild

Shelley E. Kohan (20:36)
Shocking.

Birdie (20:37)
is the shopper that’s most tied to this fraud is older millennial men.

Can you believe that? That surprised me. I think Gen Z, you get it, you’re influencer, you take a picture, you send it back, you’re abusing the system. But meanwhile, there’s this secret ring of millennial men that are just going in and taking advantage of the retailers. And so that’s what I think is great about serving the retailers and the consumers to be able to identify who’s actually committing this and how can we help stop it? Because once you do it one retailer, you’re gonna do it for everybody else.

Shelley E. Kohan (21:13)
Yeah, and I th I think the other thing that there’s a balance between is so we know consumers, based on the report and based just on knowing the retail consumer journey, the reverse logistics of it, consumers don’t really like waiting for a refund, right? They’re they don’t they they they want that refund fast, right? I returned it, I scanned it. I actually I actually expect to get a refund before the box hits the mail system or the logistics system.

So how do you balance between verification of fraud and not slowing down those refunds?

Birdie (21:49)
Yeah.

It’s really hard, especially for high price point items or items that you need to authenticate, right? Like those types of retailers will always say, you have to put it in a box, you have to ship it back, and we need to visually confirm it. but for the mo the vast majority of items, the green sweater, the black pants, the things that get purchased in return all the time, being able to take that item without its packaging in person really helps defend against that. So making them not high.

It in a box, being able to actually look at it in person both by scanning a hang tag on it, so confirming that it is the right product, andor visually looking at it to confirm makes it much easier to catch those bad actors. so that’s really the goal is we want to be able to give cost customers optionality, right? Like you could send it back via the mail, but we’re gonna wait until we refund you because we need to inspect it, or you can go to Happy Returns, you have to hand it to a

person, you have to take it out of the box and we’re gonna give you that refund immediately. And then what we can do is we can work with the retailer to say, are there folks that you see as red flags that should go one way or the other, right? Do you want us to always inspect them or do you want it to go back to your warehouse where you inspect them? And so that’s really where we can use our fraud signals to to really help protect their policy and their business.

Shelley E. Kohan (23:16)
Yeah, absolutely. I think over the past few years, I mean, ever since I’ve been in retail, we’ve always retailers have always like tried to reduce returns. It’s always been how do we reduce returns, reduce returns, reduce returns. We tried,

Birdie (23:31)
Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (23:32)
you know, tighter policies, shorter windows, charging, you know, there’s a a plethora of things that we can do to try to prevent returns, right?

But

now you kind of have a different philosophy. You’re saying that instead of trying to reduce, reduce, reduce and make them go away because they’re never gonna go away, how do you use this as a growth channel?

Birdie (23:55)
Yeah, yeah, great question. And we think about this over the last few years. So in 2024, people said, we gotta cut returns. We gotta make them stop. They’re too expensive. In 2025, they said, we’re gonna turn a blind eye. We just gotta sell more online. And now we realize, shoot, they’re not going away. We gotta deal with them. So if they’re gonna continue to come back, we have to make them better. And so what we see is when you make them better, your customer’s gonna come back and shop with you more. So think about the last thing that you purchased that’s hanging up in your closet.

Right? You may have something that you were like, I bought that, I loved it, it fit me, it was wonderful. I might go back to that retailer and I’m gonna buy something else from them. Or I’m gonna buy this in another color because that was such a delightful purchasing experience. But there may be something hanging in your closet that still has the tag on it that was $120 and you’re annoyed because it was so hard to return. It was past the return window. They were gonna charge you $10, this, that, or another thing. And you’re not gonna go back and you’re not gonna buy from them because that shirt in your closet is making you mad, right?

And so that’s where we really think about like you’ve got to give the customer options. You’ve got to work with your business, right, to keep yourself afloat, but you also have to accommodate your customers because they’re the ones that are driving your revenue. So how can you do that? It’s by giving optionality and it’s by giving return options that help protect against fraud that are convenient.

Shelley E. Kohan (25:18)
Yeah, it’s so funny, Birdie, that you say that because I can’t believe you just lived my whole life for two minutes there. I was I was a huge prop proponent of this one brand. I love this brand. Like love this brand. I bought it for me, bought it for my kids, bought it for my husband. Like I was crazy nuts. Every time you saw me, you knew that was that brand. I’m not gonna say the name.

Birdie (25:38)
Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (25:39)
And I bought something. I wear the same size, right? I bought something. It was too big. I wanted to return it. They wanted to charge me. I’m like, well, why are you charging me? I said, it doesn’t fit.

You know, I bought this size, it doesn’t fit. And they said, Well, you know, the sizing’s different across all the apparel items, you know, and I that that’s like the worst answer. Like, okay, so you’re not sizing it properly. So now you’re gonna ask me to pay to return it. You’re

Birdie (26:01)
It’s my fault? Right.

Shelley E. Kohan (26:03)
it’s my fault, the customer. I have not bought from them in probably six years.

Birdie (26:08)
Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (26:08)
I’m I’m done. I was done. I’m like, that’s insane. So what I think, and you won’t say this, I can say this, but you can’t say this, but I’m gonna say this.

Birdie (26:16)
Hehehe.

Shelley E. Kohan (26:17)
I I actually think happy returns is a competitive advantage for retailers. And I’ll tell you why. when I’m shopping, and it’s not just me, I’ve had this conversation with strangers and with friends. When they see the happy returns, it’s like, thank God. Because I I know what I know what’s gonna happen. If I have to return, it’s easy. It’s you know, a mile from my house. I just have to walk in, I don’t have to paperwork, print, all of that stuff. So I think that

You know, I think you have a competitive advantage just by saying with a retailer happy returns, right? And I think also

Birdie (26:52)
Thank you, yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (26:53)
this whole idea of one of the things that came up in the report, the returns report, was this this idea of a familiar location to return.

Birdie (27:03)
Mm-hmm.

Shelley E. Kohan (27:04)
Like I’ve had situations where they want me to return something, and I have to figure out where that is. I I d I don’t want to do that.

Birdie (27:15)
No.

Shelley E. Kohan (27:16)
You know?

Birdie (27:16)
And you know, UPS continues to be the number one location that customers wanna go to.

Because I don’t know about you, but I know everybody that works at my local UPS store. There’s easy parking in the back, and I can do multiple things there, right? I can take my Amazon returns. I can take other things. I can I can do so many services there and they’re friendly and they’re local. And so I think you think about locations that are convenient to other errands that you’re running. I have an eight-month-old and an eight-year-old. I don’t have time to be driving to the other side of town to go return a box. And I don’t

even know where my packing tape is and I don’t know if my printer has enough ink, right? And so all of those things combined really drive where I’m gonna shop and what my return experience is gonna look like.

Shelley E. Kohan (28:04)
It’s so true. So what do you what would what would you say to retailers today? What’s one thing they could change for this holiday season that would turn returns into an advantage for them?

Birdie (28:17)
You know, holidays are hard because we’re turn

policies change, the time frame changes, the return rate’s not going to change. We see it stay pretty steady over the holiday season from general year over year. but the fraud is gonna increase. And so you really need to put in place something that helps protect against fraud. You need to be able to either give that ref return return, excuse me, you either need to be able to give the refund up front because you know exactly what you’re getting back, or you need to make them go into the store, or you need

to

wait to give that refund upon inspection with you when you send it back via the mail. And so being able to give one optionality and two convenience are two things that you should really think about before the holidays to drive more purchasing from your customers.

Shelley E. Kohan (29:08)
I definitely think that’s true. And I’m gonna steal one of the phrases you used, which is you you know how you have a buy button? So you’re on social media,

Birdie (29:16)
Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (29:17)
you’re on online, it says buy now, buy. You need to have a return button that does the same thing. Return now, but done. You know, that’s done. Easy.

Birdie (29:21)
Return now. Yeah. A little yellow smiley face.

You you’ve got the the like the Apple Pay button that’s so easy to purchase, which can be dangerous. I need a yellow circle smiley face where I click on that and it just takes my return.

Shelley E. Kohan (29:38)
Exactly. Well, Birdie, what a pleasure having you on today. And before we leave, can you tell our listeners where they can get that awesome returns report?

Birdie (29:47)
Yes, of course. If you go to our website, happyreturns.com, you can put in your contact information and download the report. It just came out today. Returns happened 2026. As I mentioned, this is our fifth year doing it. So there’s a lot of really awesome data that we’ve learned over the last few years. and really in great insights for retailers to prepare for the holiday season.

Shelley E. Kohan (30:10)
That’s awesome. Thank you so much for being here. It’s great.

Birdie (30:12)
Thank you so much, Shelley. This was wonderful.