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You know, guessing what the customer wants or, you know, getting ahead of what they want. We can use technology, they can, it can assist and augment the way that we work. And that’s, honestly, that’s what excites me the most. Retail Unwrapped is a weekly podcast hosted by Shelley Kohan from the Robin Report.

Each episode dives into the latest trends and developments in the retail industry. Join them as they discuss interesting topics and interview industry leaders. Keeping you in the loop with everything retail.  I’m so excited to be here today at the National Retail Federation’s Big Show 2025. There are a great list of speakers and people that we will be visiting at NRF’s big show this year.

The Robin report is here and we will be not only doing our podcast from the NRF, but we will also be doing lots of written content about what we’re seeing. At the National Retail Federation’s big show. So, let’s get started.  I’m so excited to be here with the NRF. And this is Retail Unwrapped. And we are here, I’m Shelley Kohan.

And we are talking to Suni Shamapande. I think I said that correctly. You did, you did. But you probably said it nicer than I did. Shamapande, you said it perfectly. And you are principal at PwC,  so we’d love to hear more about your role as a starting point at PwC, and welcome. Thank you very much. It’s a pleasure to be on the show with you today.

So,  I lead our retail operations practice, which is essentially supporting retailers on core brick and mortar retail, but also the integration of omni channel retail. with retail. So all things retail. So think everything about the store, everything about online, buy online, pick up the store, self check out all the things that you would think about when you visit a store, including the product would be critical.

And obviously the associates being a critical component with that. That’s great, Suni. And by the way, you just named like Everything I can think of that retailers are really thinking about. So you have a big job there.  Yeah, it’s an important job. I love the job. I love being in retail. You know, my mother was a store manager many years ago, so that’s how I got into retail.

Where was she a store manager? She was a Macy’s department store many years ago. She was part of the federated group, so that’s how I got into it. I come from federated. Well, so do we. We used to call them the feds. Yeah, she was with the Stearns A& S and she ended up becoming a Macy’s. She was at, Westchester County and, what is it?

In White Plains Mall, etc. She spent a lot of time. So that’s how I started. And I tried to run away. I really did. I tried to. I went to college. I thought I was going to do something different, but here I am. So. Well, I think Macy’s is an excellent training ground. I, I’ve spent a lot of time at Macy’s. I’ve been there 17 years between Macy’s and Bloomingdale’s.

And so, Tony Spray, I’m glad he’s at the helm and he’s doing great things. So, retail’s a great, I think it’s a great job for people. And, it offers a lot of opportunities. It does. It does. It’s a great job. Particularly for young people to really understand the P& L of running a business and understanding retail operations, etc.

I learned a lot today. I’m starting as a kid in retail and watching my mom as a general manager in retail. And so, and as you can tell, I didn’t run away. I tried to, but I didn’t. That’s great. Well, I love your enthusiasm. So, first I want to ask you, we’re here at the NRF show, the big show, which is in New York City.

And, what are you seeing? Tell me what you’re seeing at the show and what’s important. Shelley, it’s a great question. A few things. Number one, AI continues to be one of the key things. Things that we’re seeing, as you know, AI impacts all of the things retail, right? From how do you select your product to the accuracy of how you price your product and pricing tools that can be leveraging or leverage around AR.

We’re also seeing AI in the front of house. We’re seeing it around POS accuracy. We’re seeing around shrink mitigation. We’re even seeing AI involved in the safety of associates and identifying active shooter type things.  and a lot of it is the intersection of AI and other capabilities. So, for example, AI and video analytics, right?

So we’re seeing the intersection of how do I use video analytics or, or video information and overlay AI to identify issues that are happening in stores. The great example, I think you and I were talking beforehand, is self checkout. As you know, Self checkout was a hot topic in the retail industry.  and, specifically what we’re seeing there is retailers are coming back with self checkout, but suppliers are offering options that say, how do I integrate a video analytics that sits on top of my self checkout that validates the accuracy of what’s being scanned and put in sale

And the AI component of that is it plugs into an AI system. It’s a SUNY move this item from point A to point B, did it in fact get scanned? And if it got scanned, does the video confirm that the item I moved is the item that got scanned? That’s really high tech integration of AI,  video analytics, and then tying it into your POS system, which is amazing.

And Suni, what I found is that there was this big push for self checkouts. I’m going to say three or five years ago, everyone was doing it. And then I’ve heard the rumblings of, Oh, everyone’s pulling away from self checkouts, but I’m actually not seeing that.  Yeah, I think what happened, if you recall, was COVID accelerated things, as is the case in many scenarios.

So what happened during COVID was we wanted contactless checkout, right? We wanted to create an environment so retailers ran to self checkout. But unfortunately, while they ran to self checkout technology, the risk mitigation, shrink mitigation solutions didn’t keep pace with that. That makes perfect sense.

And now we’re, the marketplace is catching up. And now you see every POS vendor that is introducing self checkout or expanding self checkout. Offering a new option around this piece. And that’s important because that ties into, if you don’t mitigate the shrink risk, obviously there are retailers that have pulled back.

And candidly, that’s sad for the consumer because all our data points to the fact that, oh, you know, when you see Gen Z, Millennials, where my daughter sits, they want self checkout. They want it as an option. Absolutely. And I don’t know any,  Any person, regardless of generation, that looks forward to the checkout process.

I can’t wait to get to checkout and get my stuff checked out. So I think that’s great. So I want to switch topics on you. I know you’re an expert in this area and I’m very curious about it. The GLP 1 drugs,  you think it’s transforming the apparel industry. Tell me a little bit about that. Yeah, I think it’s impacting many components of retail.

Let me talk a little bit about it. Number one,  foundationally. Your consumer wants to be healthier, right? So the consumer now has the ability to pick them, essentially to influence the body that they want. So obviously from an apparel standpoint, thinking through what that looks like, is the demographics of our consumer is going to fundamentally change.

The size of our consumer is going to change. So, So, you know, how we merchandise certain things, we want to certainly maintain all options for our consumer. But there are going to be categories and sizes that maybe we didn’t have the same penetration in three, four years ago. But as the consumer’s body changes, we need, you know, many of the apparel retailers are rethinking their portfolio product and their assortment and to optimize that so they can meet this new body or this new consumer that they’re dealing with today.

That’s so interesting. Thank you for that. And then the other thing I want to ask you about is, so we heard a lot about, I remember It must have been 15 years ago when e comm went really big and it was like the stores are dead, the stores are dead. And I seriously went on like a six year speaking tour around the U.S. saying the store is not dead, the store is not dead. And now  we went to COVID, things got shut down, people are coming back. Tell me your philosophy on the in store physical store. Where are we? Is it alive and well? What’s going on there? It is alive and well. And candidly, surprisingly, even Gen Z and Millennials are embracing it.

And if you recall, again, a COVID effect was a lot of people felt cooped up in the house, right? They didn’t get to get out. And so part of the beauty of getting to go to stores is you get to touch the product. You get to experience the product. You know, one of the things our holiday survey outlined was the fact that many of the consumers were just happy to see the, The Christmas decorations and things like that.

And that’s what you don’t, yeah, you don’t get that at home. So we are seeing an uptick on that. And as you know, pre COVID, the penetration of Omnichannel versus stores was probably, Omni was probably 10, 15 percent based on NRS data. Then it jumped up to 30, 40 percent during COVID. Now we’re kind of normalizing back down to numbers that are more reasonable, but I would say the stores are living well.

Obviously, the challenge for retailers is the integration of online and the stores and making it a holistic, a truly seamless, frictionless experience for a retail, which is still a struggle for many brick and mortar retailers that grew up in the world where consumers visited stores. Yeah, and I think part of that struggle is the legacy retail they have back of house doesn’t.

It kind of is a barrier to get them to the point of having this smooth integration. So here at the interrupt show, what are you seeing in terms of customer experience and experiential retail? Are there things that retailers should be thinking about to kind of close that gap? Yeah, I think a lot of it is the design of the store.

To your point, you know, retail has gone through shifts, right? There was a time when you had extensive big back rooms. When I started in retail, we had big back rooms and then you had sales force. Then we moved and shifted retail to this. Oh, we want all the product on the sales floor. We don’t want anything in the back room.

But then that, you know, in an omni channel experience, well, that gets complicated, because I literally, I have this joke about the jug of milk, right? You can have one jug of milk left, and I have a customer in the store that wants it, I’ve got a shopper that’s going to take the product to the store, that’s going to get it, and then maybe I have somebody who’s bagging product for a customer in the building.

So now, we have this tension in the aisle, with all these people trying to meet, their customer expectations at one time. So I do think retailers are rethinking. Now the backroom is becoming significant because when we think about buy online, ship from store, buy online, pick up in store, curbside pickup, a lot of that we want to happen in places that aren’t impacting the consumer that’s in the store

Right, of course. But still fulfilling the need of the consumer that’s not in the building. But we want to service them effectively. And that’s a, that’s a difficult shift. And it rethinks your infrastructure of your stores. Obviously, there’s a capital investment in that. So there’s a lot that needs to happen.

So it is a change in the way we talk. That’s so interesting. So now I have to tell you a funny story. Because of, I mean, I’ve been in retail my whole life. and I’m in a grocery store. And I see the pickers that are coming through. The pickers are picking all the goods. I’m actually looking in the basket thinking, Oh, oh, what, what, what are they getting?

What are they getting? What do I need to get? Like. It’s a very, it’s a very interesting phenomenon that’s happening. Yeah, and we’ve done analysis on just what we call aisle tension, which is the number of people in the aisle. So if you think about a key item, a key item in an aisle. And now I’ve got the customer, I’ve got a picker, and the pickers are multiple pickers, right?

It’s the buy on line. Ship from store, so that person is grabbing a product to go ship it to the consumer. Buy a line, pick up in store, so that person is grabbing a product. And so you can just, again, going back to that one jug of milk, I only have so many items, and the tension that that can create around trying to meet customer demand, all in an aisle, versus having the, the bifurcation of the front of the store, back of the store, and letting that happen more in the back That’s super interesting.

I never, ever looked at it that way, so thank you for teaching me something new today. Next time I’m in a store, I’m looking at, you know, how much tension is going on inside.  I don’t think we think about it that way.  anything else that you would like to add? It’s been such a fun conversation. You’re so knowledgeable.

Yeah, I think one of the hot topics, obviously there’s a change in administration, regardless of where you sit politically, that’s going to have a huge impact for retail. And I think a lot of that is the uncertainty, right? I will tell you, retailers are asking us the question, is how do I better model out what the impact of tariffs is going to look like

And not knowing exactly what the composition of those tariffs are going to be, you know, obviously we’re hearing everything from 10 to 20 percent blanket tariff rates, and obviously the China effect, and Canada, Mexico. All of that has created some, some trepidation in the marketplace for retailers around how do I properly plan for this?

How much of this do I absorb in my cost of goods sold, which then obviously impacts their margin? And how much of this do they pass to the consumer? And there’s only a finite amount of product that a consumer can absorb in their wallet. So. All of that, I think, I think that’s the hot topic, and obviously with the inauguration coming up next week, it’s one of the top topics we’re hearing.

Everybody’s waiting, kind of, to see what’s going to play out, and then obviously the impact of that in our marketplace. Yeah, that’ll be interesting to see how that plays out. Thank you so much for being here. It’s been an absolute pleasure. I’m so happy I met you in person. Oh, it’s a pleasure meeting you, too, Shelley.

It’s a pleasure having you, and it’s good to see that somebody’s talking about retail. I see work in retail. We appreciate it.  And I’m so excited for the first time, actually, physically meeting in person, Kimberly,  Kimberly Minor, who is the CEO of Wok Retail Alliance. So, welcome. Thank you so much. I know, I was so excited to see you and give you a big hug.

You know, Zoom is okay. It’s a connector. But being in person, there’s nothing like it. There’s nothing like it. so much for having me. Oh my gosh, thanks for being here. And so, I want to ask you, so you had some great insight, I know you went and saw Tracy Ellis Ross, and I actually met her, I interviewed her back, I’m going to say a year and a half, maybe two years ago, in Ulta Beauty.

Oh, right. When they started doing all their work with the incubators and all of that. So, she’s done an amazing job. At Ulta Beauty, but even beyond that scope. Tell me a little bit about what insights you walked away from. Yeah, well, you know, just before the insight, so I’ve met her too. And I’ve known her to be a very warm person.

We’re not friends, but we would go to the same eyebrow shop in L. A., Damone Roberts, and I would see her, and so it was one occasion, I was running in, she was running out, we kind of looked at each other like, we’ve seen you before, you know, because I went to L. A. quite a bit when my pilot passed out. And,  she was hosting the V.T. Awards. And, she was like, oh, who are you bringing? And I said, my son. She’s like, call him right now, I want to tell him, you know, and like, just the coolest person. and, Our board chair for WOC, Retail Alliance, is her co CEO. So, yeah. Excellent. It’s awesome.  but anyway, so yes, so the insights that I got from her, and I, you know, I’m not supposed to be recording, but  she talked about the inspiration and what she thinks is the sweet spot for pattern beauty, and that it is someone who is, the person who founded it is someone who actually used it.

She had a need, but also did her work, and she found out that 65 to 70 percent of all the whole world has curly, coily, or textured hair. Interesting. Right? And they always try to believe, like put you in a box, well, you know, that’s black hair hair, and it’s, it’s small, it’s niche. 65 to 70%. Campy niche, right?

So she said that’s also reflective of the importance of making sure the external branding, right, is connecting with everyone who needs it. Because, and the only way for that to happen is if the internal team is reflective of the consumer.  And that’s something that WAP Retail, that’s what we’re based on, Shelley.

You know, women are 60 percent of this incredible ecosystem of retail workforce.  Women are 37 percent of the leadership.  That’s bad enough.  But then, women of color,  women of color, Latin,  Black, Latin, Black, Asian,  Indigenous, Everyone, who’s of color,  6 percent can buy. It’s so sad. It’s so sad. We’re not doing enough.

We’re not. We’re not doing enough. Because retail means jobs. Retail is It’s Retail is inclusive because everyone shops. So why isn’t the internal phase of retail and the eternal heart of retail reflective of that. So that was an incredible takeaway.  You know, Tommy Hilfiger also had an incredible takeaway.

And it was funny because I was sitting next to someone and he started to talk about, you know, how  it, it, it, he’s met so many retailers, obviously, with his brand, and most believe that, That they have the answer. And so they are going to tell the consumer what they need before the consumer meets.  And this is kind of in line with another thing that Tracy said, but We’re going to tell them.

We’re not going to ask. We’re not going to get out there and get to know them. We’re going to sit in our ivy towers, we’re going to look at our reports, and we’re going to tell them. And he said the smartest business people he knew.  And I said, when he said the smartest business people that he knows, and I looked at the person next to me, and I said, are very curious.

And he said, are very curious. And so she looked at me and she goes, are you a scientist? No, but I live that. And when I talk to young people, what are we looking for? Like, what do you look for when you’re building your team? I said, the number one thing I look for is someone who is curious.  I said, because the most intelligent people want to learn, right?

The best leaders want to learn. are constant learners, right? Lifelong learners. You can’t learn if you’re not open to questions. And so curiosity is number one. You know, and that goes back to the idea of inclusion. Right? Making sure you have diverse thoughts, diverse lifestyles, diverse people, on your teams.

Because you want to know about other people. It’s like the idea that we have to shut it off and just, who I am is who I am and, you know, I don’t want to know about anyone else’s culture. I don’t want to know about anyone else’s day. I don’t want to know anything about anyone else. It’s just, it’s ridiculous.

And it’s 2025.  And so that’s, that’s, that’s my focus. That’s my passion. And that’s how I lead. The Women of Color Retail Alliance, WACRA. That’s great, and so you gave me two big flashbacks. The first flashback is I met Tommy Hilfiger  at a event at Macy’s, I’m going to say in 1998  ish. Okay. Somewhere in that neighborhood.

Yeah. And he did a big,  launch with Macy. Because that’s when they partnered, right? Yeah. Yeah. And, so that was really cool. And he was so nice. Like, he was, like, such a real person. He’s, like, one of the first big designers, that I’ve actually met in person. And he was unbelievably, like, nice and just a real person.

His brother’s very nice, too. I, my, one of my dearest friends.  She was Tommy’s head of technical design. She had worked for me at Express. And she was my technical designer. And I was like, you’re leaving me to go to New York. And she came to New York to work for Tommy. And she,  He knew her talents  and, I was working on a project with the school system in, South Orange, New Jersey.

I was creating a fashion, university for the school, for the students.  And I wanted to bring in some real names, people that the kids would get super excited about. And through her, I met Andy. Tommy’s brother and he was just the coolest guy and like, Oh sure, what can I do? What can, you know, we’ll send some t shirts and it was just like, they’re just really good people because Tommy would have her  fit his stuff.

Like, Hey Jazz, I have this thing to go to. And so, yeah, he seems, he’s real people. And that’s the same, same with Tracy. Real people. Real people. You know, you see people far away, you just don’t know. But I also think those are the most successful. Right. The other flashback you gave me was the whole thing that Tommy was saying about, we will tell you what to wear, and you’re going to like it.

That is so old school. That’s a flashback to my retail career, which started so many years ago, so many decades ago. That’s what we used to do. Yeah. Yeah. It’s crazy. I talked about that with the, the young people at the NRF Foundation.  when we were mentored, they were talking about the trends. Well, how can we not invest in fast fashion when the trends, You know, change all the time.

And I said, well, so you’re okay with people telling you what to wear?  And they’re like, what? I’m like, yeah. I was there. When I was younger, yes. I had to have the hottest thing. I had to have the, I said, and we didn’t have fast fashion, right? I said, and here I sit now, and people stop me all the time. And this is not a brag, but people stop me all the time.

Like, oh my gosh,  where’d you get that? You look great. I said, and half the stuff I’ve had for 20 years. I said, I don’t dress  for trans.  I dress for me. I said, I think more people need to think about that. That is so funny, Kimberly. I have to tell you this now. I wasn’t going to bring this up, but now I am. So when I first saw you around the corner, and I’m doing a little podcast for you here, and I walked around the corner, the first thing I said is, Oh my God

I love those boots! Where’d you get those boots? I kind of asked her where she got those boots. Like, I love your boots today. Okay, so these are Tom Ford, Oh my God! That’s Tom Ford.  Croc. Croc, right? yeah, over the knee boots. And I got them from Saks. My favorite stop whenever I’m in town. It was dangerous when I lived here, believe me.

10022? Yes, 10022.  but yeah, I went there, I go every time I’m here. Because they have the most amazing food.  And, when I went, I was here last year for NRF, and I was like, gotta take a few minutes to run over to my favorite place. And there was one pair left.  Your size? My size. Oh my God, you’re so lucky.

And I got them. That’s gorgeous. I’m so excited. Well, he said, you know, they’re hard to fit because of the calf. Most people’s calves are big.  But I was lucky. Good for you. Thank you. So before I leave you, you have to tell us about WOC and what you’re doing. I mean, you’ve done so much work. Well, first of all, thank you for all the work you’re doing for the industry, for women and people of color.

I can’t tell you, you know, how much you’re doing and how much we appreciate what you’re doing for the industry. But tell our listeners about WOC and kind of what you’re focused on. So I’m, I’m really, thank you for that question.  so WOC, WOCRA, is our,  You’ll hear walker hot walker, you’ll hear women of color retail lines, you’ll hear walk retail lines.

I want people to get used to the term walk,  because I think it’s really important and, you know, they like to demonize DEI, so let’s just celebrate walk, right? And so,  we started with just networking, because as a woman of color who’s been in this industry,  for a few decades.  every job I had, and I think it’s because I started with the executive training program, so I started at the manager level, and so I went from there

But every job I had, I was the first or the only. And, it’s very lonely, right? And, and depending on the culture. So at the beginning of my career, I worked at Express and Macy’s, like I’d never felt alone, right?  and then as I got further in, and I was a vice president working for a very large company,  I was, I, I, I felt it

Even though I’d always been, I didn’t feel it. I just felt it. And it really affected, because not only did I feel it, I knew that there were things that were being made, decisions that were being made about my career. that had nothing to do with what I was delivering. And so, you know, as I’ve talked to other women over the years,  it was the same story.

So a group of us got together and we started, WACRA in, 20, I guess  2020.  and then our first event was in New York city in 21. And so we focused it on networking because that per, that, that professional isolation, It can do a job. Of course. Right, on your confidence, your mental health.  and so we have grown from there.

I was on the board until, September of 23, and now I’m the CEO. Yay! Yay! And I’m proud of the progress that we’ve made, because we just really needed someone who could be focused. And we all had other jobs, you know, I was president of Band Aid, partnering and trying to help. and so now as the CEO, I can proudly say that we’ve gone from an impact of like about 750  to since September 23 to today, 21, 000.

What? That’s unbelievable. 21, 000. Congratulations. Yeah, And how we’ve done that is that we’ve grown from networking to now we have training programs. Hard and soft skill transcripts. It takes both sides to be successful. We have advisory services. We will go into the brands that want to know how, how to change.

Why is it important? We’ll help them. We have mental health workshops.  executive coaching, mentoring, peer circles. We continue our networking because that’s our trademark. We should know each other.  but we’re growing every day in our programming and, you know, if people are interested, they should go to, WOC, Retail Alliance.

W O C dot Retail, no, not dot, just W O C Retail Alliance dot org. Thank you. O R G. O R G dot org. and all the information’s there. We’re, we just introduced membership. We have individual memberships that start from when you, First, graduate from college or if you’re a senior and you want to get into some of the educational programs and exposure to all the way up to, we could be members, right?

And we also have corporate memberships and we are, we’re working with some really great companies that care about their employees. So, if you’re listening to this and you’re an individual, check that out. And if you go today or tomorrow, we’re giving away free memberships. So go, go today or tomorrow, and if you’re, you know, if it doesn’t fit into your budget, talk to your company.

That’s right. You know, we’re here to help. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here, and again, I’m so thrilled I got to meet you in person. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for making time for us. Of course. Thank you so much.  I have the pleasure of once again speaking with Liza Amlani. She is the founder and principal of Retail Strategy Group, so welcome.

You’re welcome. Thanks Shelley, I am so excited to be here and you know I can never say no to you.  whatever you need, you always call me and I love, love, love also guest speaking at your class. You do so many things. So I’m really excited to be here. Thank you for that. So, I’d like to start with, you’ve been at the NRF show, AI, AI, AI, we see lots of it, but I’d really like to know from you, what is the most interesting things you’re seeing or applications of AI, and what’s different out there?

So, I think we all expected, right, to see AI everywhere. But what has really stood out for me, especially with all the keynotes, which have been fantastic, is that we’re talking about AI. Humanizing A. I. So it’s not just about technology. It is about technology and people. To move things forward, to innovate, to be creative, to get products to market.

Right product, right time, right place, has been all over the place. So, for me as, you know, former merchant, someone who goes to stores every day,  It’s been amazing. I’m energized, I’m excited, and you can see this. I don’t, I haven’t slept. I’m that excited.  Well, you’re always energized and excited, so that doesn’t surprise me at all.

You know what? I am, I’m not only customer obsessed and product obsessed,  I am retail obsessed. Because I know that there are so many ways we can do things better.  being on the inside, creating product, building assortments,  going into stores, planning stores. We can do this better. So, when I hear about RFID really making progress in either inventory counts or, remember when we used to close the store to count stock?

We don’t have to do that anymore, people. We  you know, guessing what the customer wants or, you know, getting ahead of what they want. We can use technology. They can, it can assist and augment the way that we work. And that’s, honestly, that’s what excites me the most. That’s great. So you went to some sessions and you mentioned briefly that you love some sessions.

Oh my God. Just a couple quick highlights. I don’t even know where to begin. Because, I just came from the morning keynotes,  with Sheena, my good friend from Business of Fashion. She interviewed Tracy Ellis Ross, who I’ve been obsessed with for years, because she’s a fashionista, and you know, so am I.

and she was talking about pattern beauty, and how she was a customer first, and she found this gap in the market. 65 percent of customers, not even customers, people, have textured hair. I’m sorry. And that is her customer base. And it’s  almost like these customers that have been left behind and put on the wayside and not celebrated.

And that’s what Pattern Beauty is doing. As you know, I am a board member for WACRA, Women of Color Retail Alliance. Congratulations. Thank you. for your work on that. Thank you so much. I have an amazing board and CEO. And Chris Sheehan, who is the co CEO of Pattern Beauty. And we were all sitting up front cheering Tracy and,  you know, Sheena on, and it was amazing.

Now, I know I don’t have a lot of time, but I need to give a shout out to the NRF Foundation, because I was at the gala yesterday. I was just like, At the table donating money. I can’t tell you the work that they’re doing is incredible. And they featured, Christiane, of course, from WACRA. she is an, a leader to watch.

They also celebrated Tommy Hilfiger, who was, keynote yesterday and today, so I got to see him twice. That’s amazing.  Just, like, incredible how he really worked from the ground up.  you know, we,  I will tell you this story because it’s so funny, I put it on my Instagram.  as we sat down in the front row, because I’m also a retail voice, shout out to NRF Retail Voices, and We Think Retail,  this man was wandering and he’s like, is it okay if I sit here?

I’m like, sure. And his name was Alex and he’s like, you know, I’m with Tommy Hilfiger and I sold him the first pair of jeans. He’s like the OG Garmento and he didn’t know where to go. It was like the most amazing thing. So talk about humanizing  everything across retail. That’s awesome. So the NRF foundation, just to give them a plug, I’ve worked with them for the past, I don’t know, decade because of the student program.

Of course I would. So they, those students. They really do so much to uplift and run the students and provide them success. They do. And what was,  it was phenomenal to see how many people were there to support students and young people in retail. As you know, I,  I’m an adjunct at FIT and you really helped me so much.

You being a, just an academic wonder woman, let’s call you.  it was fantastic. And last year I did the, The executive mentorship program at the foundation. And I would recommend anyone  in retail who is an executive listening to this, get in touch with us. do your part. It will fill your cup.

Definitely. So, I know you talk a lot about me and all the stuff I’m doing, but it really doesn’t pale into comparison about you. So, you are a, you are a,  2025 top retail expert,  retail again, again, again, times, I don’t know, 10 years of it. I feel like it, yes. You’re also NRF Retail Voices. So can you just tell us, just spend like a few seconds talking to us about what that means.

NRF, I worked with Rethink Retail and Women in Leadership Circle as well to compile a list of 45 people. Imagine, thousands of retail experts across the entire world. I mean, there’s probably 20, 000 of them at this show.  I was chosen, and I’m one of 45 amazing, amazing humans. And it has been just a pleasure to not only be celebrated as a retail voice, but coming from inside retail 20 years of merchant product creator.

This is so it’s unexpected and I’m going to get emotional. Like it’s, it’s awesome. That’s great. Well, congratulations. You’re doing a lot of great work. And by the way, I know you’re not going to say this, so I am going to say this, and that is that I love your newsletter, The Merchant Life. Like, I just love that.

And anyone that’s in merchandising or really retail, they should be really reading the newsletter. And, last thing is, I know you’re not going to say this either, but I’m going to say this, and I’m hoping you’re going to give our listeners something special with this. But you’re coming out with a book.

I am. In fact, this is the part. This is book one of two of 2025. So this is a book called The Wholesale. And as a retail buyer, The Wholesale, like two words. Wholesale,  not wholesale. And it is, of course, we love to play on words. It is about DTC brands looking to wholesale, or if they’ve already started wholesale, how they can refine their process, what they need to look for.

I was a buyer for 20 years. I can pick out products from a You know, Coterie, like a huge show, or, you know, like we go to all those trade shows. I watch your Instagram, that’s where I get all your stores, and you’re like, I like this and that. I know, and I think it’s, it’s like about, you know, marketing, merchandising.

It’s about understanding the buying process. So,  That’s what we give. This is, it’s, you know, 40 pages. It’s an e book. You can download it. It will go live in about a week. If you want to get on the list, we’re giving a few away for free, and I would love to offer that to the Robin Report audience.  go to the merchantlife.com, sign up for our newsletter, and then you’ll see the prompts. This week we’re going to re release today’s newsletter on Wednesday, so you’ll get the email of you need to, who you need to send this to, to get that free book. But otherwise, you’re going to, you’re going to see me talking about this.  That’s great.

Thank you so much and thank you for all the work and contributions you make in the industry. for having me. You, you guys have a great platform and thank you for giving us a voice. Thank you. I’m very excited to welcome Nikki Baird. She is VP of Aptos Strategy and Products. Products, right. So, thank you so much for being here.

I know you’re very busy at the NREP this year. Yes, we do. We do. But I appreciate the time with you. So thanks so much. No, I appreciate it. So first I got to ask you, what are you seeing in retail for 2025? Tell me about what’s happening. What’s important. What retailers should be thinking about? Yeah, I’m actually really excited for 2025.

I mean, 24 23 was a little rough. Like we spent the whole time waiting for everybody to regain their confidence, right? Consumers regain their confidence, retailers to regain their confidence and we just didn’t get any payoff for that at all. And then in,  for 25 I think we’ll see,  Much more excitement on the part of retailers.

Like, I really see retailers paying attention to kind of this wake up call from Gen D saying, Hey, I want a great store experience. I want to go back to stores. I want connection. I want in real life experiences. And I’ve heard more retailers talk about,  emotional commerce and experiential retail, even though we’ve talked about this stuff before.

I, but I’ve heard more of them talk about it. Like. More focused and serious than I’ve, I think I’ve heard in a really long time. So, I am excited for 25. It’s sort of like, we’re done waiting for consumers to figure it out. So, we’re just going to figure it out for ourselves. I think that’s great. And it’s interesting because, so this is a little fun fact I’d like to share with everyone.

Gen Alpha hits the workforce this year. Yes! So, they’re making their own money. So, anyone that’s like super focused on Gen Z, they better be looking at Gen Alpha because they’re going to expect exactly what you said. Yeah, that’s true.  Even more Gen Z  in a lot of ways. Absolutely. So you’re doing a big speak here.

So tell us a little bit about what you’re going to be taking the stage about. I am. I cannot take credit for taking the stage. It’s really going to be Sarah Durba from WSS. She’s the director of IT there. And they selected and implemented our next generation point of sale solution on our unified platform commerce platform, in pretty much record time. They’re still in the middle of the rollout. It’s been a little disrupted because they’re a Los Angeles based company. So  the fires are definitely having an impact on their executive team and on some of their employees. And they’re still trying to figure that out.

But they, they basically selected and, and kicked off the project deployed.  I can’t even remember the number of weeks it took. It was, it was.  It’s breathtaking, like 16 weeks or something like that. But part of what’s really interesting about Sarah’s story is That she came into WSS new. And then, in the middle of all that, Foot Locker acquired them.

So, as an IT person navigating that space, she’s got a really great story to tell about recognizing a need to really reinvest in stores. quickly and acted on it and was able to pull that off as a new, a new IT leader walking into a team that she has never really worked with before. It’s a really great story.

And WSS, to our listeners, tell us what that is. So it’s a lifestyle shoe retailer. That’s really focused on, what they define as underserved communities. So they really focus on that kind of urban, inner city,  but they are about, they’re really about family and community and value. And, actually she’s got a really great video that they just put together that we’ll be rocking through, you’ll hear the noise for sure because it’ll be loud.

But,  but yeah, it’s just very youthful and energetic and,  very caring brand. That’s great. So I know you’re knee deep in all things retail and you’ve always been at the retail tech forefront since I’ve known you for, I don’t know how many years.  But tell me, what are you seeing for the future? Like what’s happened?

What do you see important in 2025  from retail tech standpoint and beyond? Yeah, so, so my retail tech context is really shaped by the store,  and it’s long overdue for reinvestment. And I think what’s encouraging to me is that we’re, you know, we’re probably on round three of trying to get mobile in the store.

And there’s some mobile in stores now, right? But it’s still always been.  It’s like, oh, I need a mobile device that does this, so I have a mobile device that does that. I need a mobile device that does that, I have a mobile device that does that. So, for the store associates, for the consumer, it’s a really disconnected experience.

It’s like, oh, you want to buy this that you picked off the rack today? That’s here. But if you want to order something to ship to your home, that’s over here. Oh, if you have a return for something that you bought online, that’s over here. And by the way, in order for me to get your customer address, I have to pull out this iPad from this drawer and I have to look you up and then I have to copy over the data that I find in order to get your address.

Like it’s very clunky. It really stinks. It stinks for the store associate. It stinks for the customer. It’s just not a good experience. So I see much more interest in. Connected, unified, universal kinds of experiences, and it’s, it’s like not acceptable to say, well, but if you’re going to do it that way, then you’re just going to have to have this other device.

It’s like, no, I don’t. I don’t want that. I need something simple for the store associate to use that gives them the access to all of the things that they need in order to help the customer in that moment. I can’t have them. I can’t have. Five devices per store associate, and I, and I can’t have them switching context every time they need to do something new.

So, that’s where, that’s where I see a lot of excitement around mobile in the store this time is much more connected and integrated. I should say connective as opposed to connected, right? Yeah. It’s very integrated, and I’m, I’m very excited about that. Yeah, and I think the other thing you mentioned, as we go into 2025, I know a lot of retailers are kind of pulling back on how many associates are actually in the store.So, if you take kind of the journey you just explained, and you take less salespeople or less frontline workers out, that even becomes more of a challenge. And I think the other challenge a lot of retailers are having, I And when you talk about this connective  journey is the training, you know, seeing how we can better train associates or using agentive, agentic AI to help train and.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. I do think there’s a lot of opportunity there for us for AI, again, because we’re so focused on the store and, and looking at the store associate experience, we’re really focused on enabling that store associates. So I’ve actually. It’s almost an anti training mentality. It’s like, it’s at least spend your time training them on how to have a successful customer interaction.

And don’t spend your time training them on how to use the text. So, we get pushed back all the time. Like, our point of sale has no training mode. And, And everybody is like, what do you mean? How can you do no transaction? Like you’re going to add that, right? No, we’re not. That’s the point is that you should be able to pick it up.

And if you’ve even run one transaction once ever, you should be completely on your own, able to figure it out. And if you’ve never even ever run a transaction, if you know how to use a calculator, you’re fine. Like if you can use the camera on your cell phone, you’re, you got it. You’re fine. So that’s our objective is to make that part.

Seamless and invisible and, and more, a natural tool of their, of their toolbox as opposed to, well, you have to have eight hours of training on the register before you can ring any transaction by yourself or, or whatever. It’s like, train them on how to approach a customer and how to start a conversation in a natural way, right?

Like, that would be huge. Or train them on, hey, if you get them interested in one thing, here’s how you can upsell to add to the card. Like, train them on those things. That would be. That would be wonderful, in my opinion, if store associates got training on that. Because most of the time, they spend it all on the tech, and they don’t spend it on how to talk to a customer.

It’s so true, Nikki, and you know what that circles back to? Your first comment about experiential retail. You’re never going to get to experiential retail if your associates don’t know how to do it. Are spending all their time focused on trying to figure out the register and not focused on the customer, right?

Completely. So, thank you so much. Thank you for your time. You were awesome. Yes, my pleasure. I always learn when I speak to you and I’m so happy to see you at the NRF show this year. Me too. Thanks so much.

Thank you for listening to Retail Unwrapped. We’ll be back in one week with another podcast. Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast service. If you have questions, ideas for a podcast or anything else, please contact us via therobinreport.com.