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Current homeowners who cannot move because interest rates are still high, and the housing market is so tight, they’ve decided that, okay, if we’re going to be staying in this house for a while,  we’ve got some money, we’ve got good jobs, they’re paying well,  let’s, let’s spend some money on, on where we live and, And fixing it up.

Retail Unwrapped is a weekly podcast hosted by Shelley Kohan from The Robin Report. Each episode dives into the latest trends and developments in the retail industry. Join them as they discuss interesting topics and interview industry leaders, keeping you in the loop with everything retail.

Hi, everybody. And thanks for joining our weekly podcast. I’m Shelley Kohan. I’m very excited to welcome Warren Shoulberg. He is the home guru. As I like to say, he’s an award winning journalist, consultant for the retail and home furnishing industries. And he has extensive business media experience in both fields.

And of course, Warren, you are one of our very highly regarded, esteemed, and one of our most well read writers at the Robin Report. So good to see you.  And then we also have Brian Delp. He’s the president of sales and licensing at Himatsingka.  I’m sure you’re going to correct my pronunciation, cause I’m going to ask you to actually talk about the company in a second, but it is one of the largest vertically integrated home textile manufacturers, and you manage the entire global licensed portfolio business for the America.

So Brian, say hello, but also can you tell us a little bit about the company? Yeah, thank you for having me on today. I’m very excited to connect with you and the legend that is, Warren as well.  so Himatsingka, it’s kind of funny because I, I think that’s certainly a marketing opportunity for us at the company.

You know, saying our name is, you know, Is a job in itself, but four syllables him at sca. I like to kind of like break it down to that, that level. I think we can certainly do some marketing stories around.  Capabilities broken down into 4 categories to so, as you mentioned, we’re, vertically integrated textile mill,  based in our mill is in Hassan, slightly outside of Bangalore.

If you haven’t been to Bangalore, it’s. Amazing to visit.  cooler climate below sea level there.  you could spend hours in the airport. They have a new airport in Bangalore. That’s just gorgeous. Completely made out of bamboo.  Wow. Trees hanging from the ceiling. It’s. It’s amazing.  but we’re factory direct.

The Hassan factory is located on a 400 acre campus. We have a, the largest spinning plant under one roof. Wow. We’ve got a sheeting plant, sheeting and bedding plant, and then a terry plant as well. So even though we have pretty sizable capacity and scale. Our big kind of selling point is the diverse range that we have.

So within sheeting and bedding, we do flannel, we do wovens like percal and sateen. We also do knits  and flannel. If I didn’t mention flannel, I’m repeating myself.  And then in our terry plant, we do yarn dyes and  He’s died, Jackson Dobbies. and we also do Prince, which is, somewhat,  you know, new ish to, India as well.

So within that range,  you know, makes up our, our large capacity. That’s great. I should probably should have asked you what you don’t do. It would have been a shorter list.  Windows. We don’t do.  See, not cleaning them, but window treatments, we can  and and I’ve talked to folks who have been there and they just say it’s an amazing facility.

It’s it’s it’s 1 of the best they’ve ever seen, not just in India, but anywhere in the world. So that’s impressive. Thank you. Yeah, it’s massive.  Founder has quite a attention to, to detail from having even some of the machines that we have in our factory,  custom made to be in our, our trademark kind of brand color.

And as you drive up, we even have people sweeping the driveway because he’s, he’s a little bit of a clean freak. So, but that’s, that’s kind of carried throughout the factory, which is pretty impressive. That’s great. And you know what, Brian, I know you’re humble, so you’re not going to say this. So I’m going to call you out right now, but I would like to tell the audience something that you do for the industry and for students.

And as you know, I have a real passion in supporting the next generation for our industry. But you currently serve as vice president of the board of the home fashions product board association. So, and this is where companies that are involved in the home fashion industries kind of get together and we, I have to say that,  You know, in full transparency, I’m now chairing the home products program at fashion Institute of technology.

So I am super thrilled that we have this type of support from the industry. And we’re coming off our fall event where actually both Warren  and I attended Brian. So can you give us a high level recap of the event and the purpose of the event? I don’t want to steal your thunder. Absolutely. Yeah, I’m, a little partial as, as well ’cause I’m an adjunct, at FAT.

But, shortly after joining the, the board of the HFPA, I, had some recommendations in my new,  you know, joining and very quickly was asked to, chair one of the committees. And the committee at the time was called the, the, sustainability committee. And. Particularly in our industry, I think the term sustainability,  typically means, you know, eco,  you know, sustainable practices.

So ended up changing it to the legacy committee name. And it’s really about,  you know, tactics to kind of grow and make sure that there is a legacy in the industry continues and continues to grow. So within that, and,  seeing some of the needs for, for diversity and some new blood within our industry.

And having such a strong connection,  to FIT and having known, you know, some of the, the unique features that FIT is uniquely positioned with an actual home product. And, and Thomas Jefferson University, which is a textile school in Pennsylvania. Right. Yep. Yep.  so we,  Htt was already doing market events,  and really kind of like saw an opportunity to kind of tag on with what home textiles today.

You know, the trade publication of our industry, kind of the voice of our industry, was already doing with market,  market events and pair that with the muscle that that is, you know, the, The actual vendors within the industry, combined forces and do it for a good cause. So, we came up with doing a joint venture for the, the market party and making it, really a fundraiser for the H.P. A. Foundation and the foundation has existed for many years, really from the kindness of the Lichtenberg family and organizations. Through support, but seeing an opportunity to kind of make it much bigger. we started the fundraiser the first year, got some pretty significant,  excitement and press.

I don’t know if you,  know that, you know, the 295 textile building, but once that, yeah,  close. Disrupted the industry,  because a lot of textile companies were mainly in that, that textile building. New York Times did a really good feature on it. And I happened to walk past that building, you know, every day going to my, my new office and seeing it converted and see the signs that said textile building on the front of the building be pulled off and really, we have the industry being changed in a way.

And.  Luckily, Evan of JLL, he was one of the honorees of this event. He,  was able to get the building to donate the signage.  so we use that as our, our first kind of auction item for the event. Oh, nice.  Purchase or, you know, bid on a piece of home textile industry history to invest in the future of the industry.

And that really kind of created a lot of buzz and kind of set us on this path. So now we’re in our third annual event that we just had,  raised more money even before the start of the event,  this year than, we had in prior years. And last year, because of the growth of the event, we were able to expand it to Thomas Jefferson University.

That’s great. So hopefully, you know, we can kind of continue that momentum to to extend the reach of the industry as well. So since it’s written in the paper, can I say how much scholarship funds you raise for students? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Over 55, 000. That’s unfreaking believable.  That’s serious money.

Yeah. Congrats. Really? Congrats. And that was before the start of the event. So I know, I know. I don’t have the, do you have the other numbers you want to share with us? But if anyone wants to make a donation, we’re still accepting.  Oh, there you go. All right. So before we jump into our, first topic here, we’re going to be talking about the state of the home furnishings business.

And I always have to give my audience some data cause they love data, but, you know, let’s take a look at where the first kind of quarter of 2024 was headed. So furniture stores and home furnishings was down 9. 6%. Most of that was driven by. Furniture, which was down 8. 6%. Appliance stores are down 2. 3. And here’s an interesting little fun tidbit.

House, how, when we talk about hardware stores, hardware stores were up 3. 6%. So here’s my theory. And you guys are the experts, not me. People are spending money fixing up versus purchasing. And by the way, I recently had John Van Heusen on, he’s the CEO of Ace Hardware. And there’s two quotes he said that I loved.

The first quote was that. There’s been a consumer shift from DIY, which is do it yourself, obviously, to, ready for this, D I F M, do it for me. So that opens up this whole new, like, opportunity in the home world on services. And the other thing he said, you know, and I love this about him talking about Ace Hardware.

He said, Ace Hardware is in the home restoration business. Not the home repair business. So, what the heck’s going on guys? Warren, you want to start?  Well, I think you’ve got, 2 specific things here. 1 is,  current homeowners who  cannot move because interest rates are still high. And the housing market is so tight, they’ve decided that, okay, if we’re going to be staying in this house for a while,  we’ve got some money.

We’ve got good jobs. They’re paying. Well,  let’s let’s spend some money on on where we live and, and fixing it up. And and so I think you’re seeing that,  and you’re seeing that some more in, you know, In, the kinds of things that stores like ACE, sells. So the kinds of things that, that Brian sells, you know, which is more soft home.

I think that’s, that’s kind of a little distinct from, from home,  home restoration.  and,  You know, I think Brian will probably say that,  business still a little soft compared to the, the height or depth of the pandemic.  but that,  you know, buying a new set of sheets or some new towels, relatively easy, inexpensive way to, to freshen up your house.

So I, so I think you’re seeing that, I don’t know, Brian, is that consistent with what you’re seeing? Yeah, I agree with a lot of that, especially,  you know, I think in anticipation of the Fed rate cuts, you know, there was a cut recently. I think,  you know, there have been a lot of improvements being made.

I think COVID was amazing for us, in the home textile, soft home space, because everyone was trapped. You couldn’t really, you know, Change your outfit and go out. So, you know, you had to stay at the same bed and deck pillows and towels constantly. So I think,  you know, we, we certainly got some benefits during covid,  of some peak for soft home home was definitely the, the shining star.

But now is, you know, Travel has, has become like a massive, trend and, anticipation of  some of the home updates. That’s definitely shifting more to, you know, the bigger ticket items versus some of the updates. I do think,  less on the sheets and towels in the, the home text about textile space. I think more decorative,  there’s been a lot of,  Initiatives from some of the key retailers around focusing on celebrations.

Both target and Walmart have made a lot of statements around focused on being a destination for celebration. So that’s why we’re seeing  Halloween earlier and earlier Christmas earlier and earlier, in some of those decorative spaces. And I really think that’s where, you know, some of that spend is going.

It’s almost like the lipstick effect and, yeah, sure. That’s right.  That’s exactly right.  And I think Halloween is a good indicator of, of Halloween.  You know, some people always said, well, back to school was a,  was a kind of advanced warning on what holiday business would be like. And, you know, I, I’m not necessarily buying that back to school is,  is,  not mandatory products, but they’re, they’re essentials that, you know, Kids need to buy to go back to dorms and you know, whether it’s sheets or a toaster or a lamp or whatever  But halloween is more discretionary Yeah, nobody needs a 12 foot skeleton in their front yard  But when you see people well me I should say few people mine is already up  Glad you’re doing your part.

Yep, but it’s just more discretionary and I think that’s good  You know, kind of a good leading indicator of what you’re going to see at holiday.  and that Halloween business is doing really well right now. So,  you know, to your point, that’s,  that’s a good indicator. Right? I could talk for forever about the back to college space because I have a  thing about how it’s really not fully capitalized on in our.

Yeah, retailers. It’s just.  So much missed potential.  but even in that space, I think this year, a lot of the retailers shifted more commodity based aspects. There was a lot less fashion in that space. And I think it’s been in an anticipation of,  you know, we’re going into a, An election year. yeah, there was some swings in volatility when,  you know, COVID happened.

And so there was a pullback of people,  staying in dorms and even just enrollment rates. that’s right.  So I think that’s just still some residual nervousness that we’re getting from, the retailers and going all in and in that category, but Halloween, they’re like.  All double down on,  I saw an email blast from big lots,  yesterday or this morning that just said they’re claiming to be the, the nation’s largest destination for Halloween products.

So, you know, even in their,  desperation, that’s like,  you know, a wagon they’re hitching,  to is a big marketing play for them. So hopefully that’s right. Hopefully that works, but it’s a, it is a big trend.  Warren, I just talked about big lots. That’s interesting. So they’re, they’re going to give Party City a run for their money.

Well, I think so.  You know, there’s a,  there’s been a void in the marketplace. Bed Bath Beyond was such a, Oh, Retail in that category.  if you had kids, you know that you shopped for their dorm room at your local Bed Bath and Beyond. And when, when those kids got to campus, they picked it up at the local, the local store near the campus.

And it was a great business model. Bed Bath really had the logistics on that. So, since they went away.  It’s created opportunities for other folks. So you’ve seen Amazon and you’ve seen, Walmart and target get in there and you said big lots and, and, some other folks, but,  there’s still there’s still opportunities there.

So, well, you know, we’ll see how that goes. Well, here’s here’s the thing that the dorm folks have gotten smarter and Brian, I don’t know if this is you behind the scenes probably is. But,  so now, you know, my son started going to college 2 years ago. He’s in his 3rd year.  I just get a piece of paper and I check comforter sheet pillow wastebasket.

It all gets shipped. I don’t have to do anything. I don’t have to go to a store. It’s very convenient. I do nothing. I love it. So they’ve gotten smart. But here’s the thing. I don’t understand. And maybe Warren, you can, I mean, Bed Bath and Beyond, what was it like two years ago?  They went out. I mean, it’s been two years.

Like who’s stepping in?  Well, again, in and  and Brian, you can probably speak to this too, but they closed their last doors in July of twenty two. And I think at that point,  competing retailers didn’t have time to get their acts together for fall of twenty two. So you really didn’t see anything happening until fall of twenty three and and and now you’re seeing it for back to school twenty four.

So.  You know, there’s a time lag there, and it’s just a lot of guys time to, to catch up with that. But they’re doing it. Ikea is opening up stores on campus container stores doing that. So,  lots of people going after that, that business, lots of people going after all of Bed Bath and Beyond’s business,  you know, at their peak, they were doing 10Million dollars.

So some of that disappeared, but a lot of it’s in play, so.  Great opportunity for other retailers in the home space.  Definitely.  So,  container store, you know, last year they did a partnership with, Dormify and then this year Office Depot did a similar,  partnership and then container store, I think, use it as a test and then, you know, This year for back to college, they launched their own private brand in store of soft home.

So they did a  kind of one off 300 thread count cotton sheet program branded as container store. So I think  there’s some testing, but just overall, it’s still just. To me, it seems like shyness across the market and, and fear of going all in,  even take Coles, for example, that,  and made some pretty aggressive announcements,  end of last year that they wanted to rebuild the home category and even get a pop up shop in New York, in Manhattan showing, you know, the new home and, and whatnot.

But then it just came out that their, their home store sales have continued to, to decline.  you know, and when you walked in for the back to college space, which they used to have.  You know, a pretty robust assortment that they would, they would drop in.

I think it was Simple by Design was the brand. Oh, yeah.  full layered bed displays, full branded assortments, pretty robust,  set configurations. But then, you know, following that, they’ve really kind of like pulled out big one and started to rely on pulling in some licensed brands. And it, It wasn’t as cohesive of a back to college assortment as it, it used to be.

So I just think in general, yes, some are testing, but there’s still a lot of fear,  there I think, leftover from getting stuck with so much inventory, glutton, and just consumer sentiment. Right.  So I, I, Oh, Warren, did you want to say something?  I, I was just going to say, I swore I would never bring this up again.

Cause I feel like after the pandemic, I spent three years literally talking about supply chain and, but I got to bring it up today. I’m going to do it. I’m going to break my rule. I’m going to bring it up and I’m going to say, what the heck’s going on? Logistics, supply chain, what trends are you seeing in home products?

And you know, what’s going on with the potential doc strikes?  Well, and I don’t claim to be a, a longshoreman or a stevedore, but, but it looks like,  the, the workers are going to go out, on strike,  on the east coast and the gulf coast, next week.  it’s kind of gotten caught up in politics.

I think, the democratic administration doesn’t want to, doesn’t want to force union workers to go back to work.  so there’s a lot of politics involved there.  and,  that could have, you know, some serious impact on things,  that’s the whole supply chain is still,  kind of,  boxed up,  whether it’s a terrorist blocking the Suez Canal or the Panama Canal drying up or, or,  the big ocean freight companies,  kind of having a cartel that takes ships out of, out of capacity and allows them to to increase prices.

You know, I think what,  what everybody learned during,  the pandemic was that, there’s a lot of elasticity in pricing and,  containers that were I don’t know, you tell me, Brian, they were as low as 100  before the pandemic, and went as high as 22, 000, and maybe even more.  And people paid it. So I think everybody has found out that,  there’s,  the market will pay what the market has to pay.

So, It’s should have invested in an airline at that point  what we were having to do  some big container ships. Yeah.  so it looks like,  we’ll continue to see some turmoil and some disruption in there.  You know, I think a lot of retailers,  saw this coming, brought in goods early and maybe won’t get hit so bad for holidays.

Maybe most of their stuff is already here. Shipments are getting diverted to the West Coast.  I believe that there’s excess capacity on the West Coast and in Long Beach and Seattle. So.  but it’s out it’s out of price. So, yeah,  you know, the law of supply and demand was something that,  all of us,  learned in a Tuesday afternoon in high school and high school economics and probably forgot all about it.

And, I don’t know about you, but I think I should have paid more attention to that.  I think I skipped that class altogether.  Yeah, or blocked it out.  It’s about as important as trigonomics. But, yeah,  pretty much. Yeah. The way you talk about it, it sounds like,  you know, in the kind of the state of supply chain right now, it’s like lions and tigers and bears

You know, it’s, it’s pretty scary that, you know, You know, seeing some of the state of things, dealing with the Red Sea issues,  and just going into, like, right into holiday season, it’s, it’s certainly concerning.  It sounded like Warren was describing a movie to us. Mm hmm. Right? It’s just Yes, yes.  Coming soon to a retail store near you.

Yes. It’s crazy. So Brian, the other thing you mentioned when, when we talked, previously, as you mentioned more stops, can you talk a little bit about, more stops and, you know, what, what, what is that? How is that impacting supply chain? Like, what’s going on with that? Yeah, and  you know, once you get availability of a container, which is pretty,  difficult to do, you know, the bigger you are, retail side,  you know, the more prioritization that you, you get, but, logistically in terms of getting the containers, Delivered to the warehouse to the US what typically took, you know, 35 days.

We’re now trending 40, 45 days.  even in some cases up to 60 days because of the amount of stops that they’re taking,  and just the routes that the, the ships now have to take. It’s, it’s getting.  Longer and longer lead times. So that’s forcing us to kind of shift up production, increase our weeks of supply and all of those things have operational cost impact.

That has to come from, from somewhere.  so it’s, it’s, it’s not the greatest, dynamic to be dealing with going into, the holiday season.  and we have another prime day coming up. So,  yeah. Oh.  Yeah, I,  yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s a lot and I feel like what you just said, I feel like we’re going backwards in time. We’re warping back to a longer, you know, lead time, which is not really what we want to do. Because the consumer, the shift of consumer demand just changes so quickly.  So  industry, you know, shipping a comforter, you’re shipping air.  you know, you can’t really compress it. Although Macy’s is is starting to do some of that with some unique packaging where they’re actually doing comforter sets in compressed and doing some educational hang tags to kind of explain to the consumer.

Once you open it, it’ll expand. But,  You know, beyond that, we’re, we’re pretty behind in terms of, you know, being a little bit more efficient in the, the packing because on the other side of it in the retail landscape,  in retail stores, staff is pretty limited. So to have somebody come open the, you know, compressed bag after it’s receded and put it on the shelf in that way, it doesn’t typically happen, so retailers have to rely on it shipping retail ready to be put on a shelf.

So it kind of prevents you from having some of these hacks as well because of the, the kind of cuts on the, you know, retail storefront. Yeah, and I’m going to tell you right now, Brian, no one’s fluffing up the comforters. No, it’s not going to happen unless you’re an Hermes or, you know, a luxury brand and the labor, the labor, you know, the wages are just so expensive that,  you know, doing what I just said, just, you know, taking out a box, flex, fluffing it up, you know, that’s a big labor increase

So it’ll be interesting what happens, but it does bring up a good point. I’d like to talk a little bit about traceability and sustainability.  I don’t know, Brian, maybe you want to take the lead on this. And I don’t know if you want to separate the two topics cause they’re a bit different, but somewhat related.

Yeah. I’d say, you know, we just finished our.  Technically our market week for the industry, although, appointments are still ongoing. Market week is now market month and as you know, market week is kind of like the fashion week for our industry,  where our runway is all of the new beds, set up in the showroom and all of our new products.

But all the retailers come in.  And we talk about the new trends and concepts that are kind of shaping the industry and very notably,  this market, especially a lot of the conversations and some of it last market, but but really cemented this market conversations have shifted,  less about sustainability, although it is obviously is still important, but the main theme is around traceability and, you know, inherent in that, you know, some of the sustainable aspects are, have to also be traceable.  And I’d say that’s, that’s mainly driven by some of the concerns with forced labor cotton.  you know,  when  Your containers are already taking X amount of extra time to get to the port.

You don’t want to have to worry about verification and customs  claims as well. So traceability is really one of those key things that retailers are talking about.  More so in the home industry, just because we have a history of,  having to substantiate some of those claims a little bit more than, even in the apparel space.

Hey Brian, how much do you think the cons the shopper is paying attention to that? You know, I Being a, a cynic, you know,  customer that’s,  shopping at H and M and that Zara and buying essentially disposable clothing,  or shopping at at Sheehan or, or Temu, and buying something that gets thrown away a month later.

Are they, are they focused on that? Are they willing to pay for it? What do you think? I don’t know, I don’t necessarily think the majority of consumers care about it, but, you know, you mentioned,  H& M and Zara.  if you recall, I think it was like 2 months ago, there was a scathing report that came out about, BCI claims for Inditex and H&M.

You know, BCI not actually having sustainable farming practices in certain area,  they’ve since kind of, you know,  Those claims, I’m not quite sure exactly where, where they are on it, but,  you know, it kind of goes similarly to,  if you, you, remember the prop 65 situation  packaging where. You know, there’s slews of,  lawyers instead of, chasing ambulances, they’re chasing vinyl bags to,  get them tested to, very quickly be out there in California and suing certain companies, for not having a little sticker on the plastic bag.

So I think maybe the consumer, you know, the majority of consumers aren’t looking at it, but legislation, particularly from California,  really is kind of driving a lot of these concerns and  unfortunately creating opportunities for monetization of,  you know, having people substantiate these, these claims.

And I would say that’s, that’s a similar kind of take to,  a lot of certifications that are popping up, you know, there’s proliferate proliferation of certifications in our industry.  Every day, you kind of like see a new new type of certification that pops up, which is really monetizing some sort of marketing  claim or campaign in the industry.

You know, that the end consumers don’t necessarily necessarily seem to care about.  Yes, some of the diehards.  but there are those.  legislative issues and regulation issues that you really have to  watch out for.  Oh my god, Brian, you just gave me a big flashback. I actually was working in California at Macy’s and  we had, when Prop 65 rolled out, so it was tabletops, housewares, like, oh my gosh.

Oh, wow. I’m sorry for you. Of course.

Anyway. Okay. So I’m going to put you both on the spot. I’m going to ask you the same question and Warren, I know you’re up for this. What is going to happen in 2025? What are we seeing? Where’s the business going?  So first off, I think,  despite reports to the contrary, there will be a Christmas shopping season.

People, people will buy stuff for each other.  I think it’ll be up a couple of points and,  it will be more of a legitimate increase than last year because inflation is not driving up prices. So,  Christmas will be okay. Nothing great, but it will be okay. I think,  I’m looking for the home business in general to start to see some legitimate improvement in the second quarter of 25.

I think  you’re going to see a few more cuts on on the Federal Reserve rate.  so a couple of more cuts in mortgage rates and,  so that’s when you’re going to start to see people. Full going back and spending some money on their homes again.  they’ve sort of, you know, you’re already seeing it. the cruise ship business is, kind of tapered off a little bit.

It’s still going up, but not going the way it was. So, so people that have gotten that wanderlust travel out of their system. And I, I think they’re going to. Focus back on their homes again.  you know, I look for,  when Gary Freeman, who’s the CEO of our age when he says,  he’s been pretty pessimistic.

And when he says, second quarter of twenty five. That’s a pretty good barometer for me. Oh my God. That’s kind of what I’m seeing. I don’t know if that’s, if that’s what you’re seeing, Brian. All right, Brian, hold on. I got it. I got it. Did you get the video I sent you on, Gary  in his,  when he, yes. So Gary doesn’t believe in social media.

So very interesting. Yes, he’s, he’s, he’s nothing if not an iconoclast. So, oh, my gosh, he’s so cool. We had him on our CEO series a couple of years ago. It’s one of the best interviews. I was so entertained the whole time. You know, he’s a fascinating, he’s very entertaining, but he’s a fascinating guy and he’s not afraid to, to just.

Go out there and take chances and try things. And,  you know, so many retail businesses are so conservative and have gotten so,  risk adverse.  and he says, let’s, let’s try and see what happens. And they’re not all going to work, but enough of them will. And, you know, anybody who bet against him when their stock was, yeah.

Missed a great opportunity. So, yeah. And it’s always fun to take the first restoration hardware store up in Eureka, take a picture of visual of it and look at the current restoration hardware store. And that’s a case study right there. So Brian,  Brian, what are you seeing? 2025 tell me and holiday too.

Well, first I have to say that it was the most entertaining podcast you did until this one, right?  Of course, because  you’re so interesting.  yeah, I, I  continue with kind of what, Warren’s saying. I,  am seeing more kind of like a split and a divide between, product categories, in terms of sales and, and price tiers.

So I think that’s going to definitely continue more.  Luxury growth and more promotional growth really centered around more durability. I think we’re getting,  shifts towards some, some classics,  some kind of like core items versus, you know, just some of the,  yes, there is the Sheehan’s and the team use that are driving things,  down, but there’s a big question mark.

At least for me in terms of what’s going to happen with e comm and, you know, the state of that with,  both looming, you know, concerns about tick tock and tick tock shop, but as well as, you know, the de minimis,  you know, from,  the Biden administration that are putting out, I know Warren, you had said that,  you know, earlier, so in the e comm space, Really kind of a question mark there, but I definitely think,  you know, I, I see some more strengths and some more efforts happening in the department store space.

So, Macy’s, you know, the, the new vision,  plan, I think is, is.  Hopefully starting to make some change there. But,  I was at visiting stores earlier this week and was really, really surprised and in awe of the assortment that JCPenney has.  it amazing, like one of the most well merchandised,  assortments and we don’t currently work with them.

So I’m saying this really kind of unbiased.  so hopefully, you know, seeing some of these efforts and, and, you know, The investments that they’re making in store remodels start to take,  you know, hold in that kind of like segment of business, as well, because that that kind of channel has really dwindled.

So hopefully there’s some more kind of, growth in 2025 back into that category.  Nice.  Take it.  Shelley, the old journalist in me has to ask you. You talk to a lot of people. What are you seeing? I mean, what’s your forecast for next year?  I think it’s going to be a positive year. I think that, I mean, I’m seeing a lot of positivity with consumers, of course.

You know, I’m going to say all this, but a lot of it is dependent on the election, a smooth transition of power, et cetera, et cetera, if that happens, you know, whatever, I think the elections are going to be a little,  distraction in November and for holiday. And I know I’ve looked at the data, Warren, I think, I think.

We may have talked about this in the past. I’ve looked at the data on elections and it really doesn’t like move the needle for retail. It just doesn’t. So, but what might change is some of the tariff and taxes and, you know, changes like that, I think are more apt to move the needle. But I, you know, I, I’m Pollyanna.

I’m like, you know, rose colored glasses all the way. And I think the consumers are really coming out. I feel like this is kind of the first year where we’re back to back to normal.  Okay. Consumer Confidence Index hit like a six month high at the end of August. So, you know, that the fed rate cut, we’re just we’re up and up.

I don’t know about you guys, but I’m, I’m all in favor of positivity. So yeah, that’s good.  Well, thank you both. Oh my gosh, we had so much fun today. Time flies, but thank you both for being here. It was awesome. And for our listeners, you know, if you have comments, suggestions, feedback, please. Log into the RobinReport.com or just go to the website and click on contact us and provide us your feedback.

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