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There’s only like three or four steps, like, you know, from the slicer to the counter and then back to the slicer again, but in total, that’s eight steps per transaction, how many transactions per day, per employee, how many transactions per year, those are a lot of footsteps that add up into lots of dollars.

So was it absolutely necessary? And then talking to your employees, you learn that I don’t need this slice of Turkey. I buy this Turkey every single week. I know what it tastes like. Just give me a visual that you’re cutting it properly and we can go on about our day.

Retail Unwrapped is a weekly podcast hosted by Robin Lewis and Shelley Kohan from The Robin Report. Each episode dives into the latest trends and developments in the retail industry. Join them as they discuss interesting topics and interview industry leaders, keeping you in the loop with everything retail.

Hi, everybody, and thanks for joining our weekly podcast. I’m Shelley Kohan, and I’m very, very excited to welcome Matt Mueller. He’s a global recognized retail innovation strategist, keynote speaker, and bestselling author of The mindful innovator. So I’m so thrilled to have you on Retail Unwrapped. And today we’re going to be discussing something that’s very important, especially as we go into fourth quarter, and that is the workforce.

So very, um, interesting to hear some of your insights about how we can better prepare our workforces, not just for fourth quarter, but just how do we cultivate a better work environment. So let’s jump right in and welcome Matt. Thank you so much for having me, Shelley. It’s exciting. I’m excited to be here, and I can’t wait to share some insights.

That’s great. Now, before I actually ask you one of my first questions, can you tell our listeners a little bit about the Mindful Innovator? Sure. Uh, yeah, the mindful innovator is a book that I wrote about a year ago. Um, that is based off my experience in the retail industry. I started off as a kid in retail at 18 years old, working in the delis, uh, and worked my way out of the stores to work on the corporate side.

And I was asked to start an innovation team. So starting that innovation team, I learned a ton. We did amazing workshops. We collected amazing insights. Uh, and we tried to figure out how do we actually. Evolve the industry. How do we create new experiences, um, that are now going to impact the consumer, but also impact the employee.

Uh, so that innovation team that we built, um, and all those insights are in this book and I’ve really just, it’s all about sharing those insights out with other retailers so they could create more impactful experiences for their employees and their customers.  That’s great. So I want to start by kind of asking you, you know, you have this idea that says, uh, it’s not you, it’s me.

And, uh, we, we kind of always, I don’t know. I just feel over the past few years, we keep setting up the retail workforce to fail. So talk to me a little bit about that.  Yeah, going back and thinking about, like, as a deli manager and talking to these leaders that I’m talking to now, we always hear like, uh, the employees that I have are bottom of the barrel or it’s, you know, these employees just don’t really care.

Um, but really, it’s not them. It’s us. It’s us. It’s the leaders. We’re setting them up to completely fail. So thinking about, you know, to my experience as a deli manager, like, I remember being on the corporate team coming into the stores and saying, Hey, we’re going to be focusing in on, on this item. And we’re going to be focusing in on this strategy.

And we’re going to be focusing in on this other thing. Oh, and we’re going to create this whole new product line over here that we need you to focus in on. And really what they were doing was they were creating so many different tasks and focuses for our retail employees and our retail teams. That we weren’t able to execute anything.

So sometimes like what we’re trying to, you know, we’re trying to do good and we’re trying to create these new programs for our customers, but sometimes we forget to think about the impact that it has on our employees. And it just, it really does become disheartening for retail employees where they, where they just give up.

And even like, you know,  what’s that? I was going to say, Matt, it’s so bad right now with what you just described, all these priorities and they’re coming in from different functions, marketing and operations and visual and blah, blah, blah. Now we have technology out there that helps us organize all these tasks, but I’m not sure that’s the solution.

Yeah, I think it’s a mix. I mean, I think it’s definitely a step in the right direction to get us, but I mean, we shouldn’t have that many tasks.  We shouldn’t have to, we shouldn’t need that technology to organize it. We need to be thinking about what do we really need to accomplish? And, you know, if you, The book, the Mindful Innovator, right

It’s, it’s all about being mindful. And so thinking with intent, what are the strategies that I really want to execute in my stores and what do I mindfully need my employees to do? And what can I mindfully take away from what the employees need to do? Because you can’t do it all. Like, another example of of this was like, you know, working in the delis, we were creating these new sandwiches.

And the sandwiches were absolutely just beautiful sandwiches. They were, you know, elaborate and artisan made. So it had basil and fresh mozzarella and we had to get the roasted red peppers on the shelf. I mean, they were good. My mouth is actually watering thinking about them.  But it created this like really high intense like item that we had to build in the store.

So we’re behind the deli counter and we’re making, you know, 20 or 30 of these sandwiches with our backs turned to customers that are coming up with the counter. Got to help the customer. Then you go back to your sandwiches. And then you got to put them out in the sales floor to sell them. By the time we got the sandwiches out to sell them, it was like, you know, three or four o’clock in the afternoon.

And time has passed the opportunity. It’s completely just flew by. And the reason why was because we were creating these high intense labor item items.  And at the same time, they were telling us we need to cut our hours back.  Right. We hear that all the time. Interesting. Yeah. So you have to cut those hours back.

So it’s like, well, which, what do you want us to do? Do you want to do is these like intense labor items and support us? Or do you want us to not do it and cut back, you know, the bottom line. So it’s, so that’s kind of like the frustration that we have. It’s in our stores,  you and I, and everyone else in America has actually watched this unfold before very eyes, you know, Starbucks rolled out its mobile first strategy.

Okay. I think it actually, you know, almost killed the brand. America, one of America’s favorite brands, because of what you just said operationally, they couldn’t keep up with the demand of the mobile ordering. And then, like you said, all these custom orders, double Frappuccino, a shot of hazelnut oatmeal, you know?

And so we created this environment in Starbucks stores. And, you know, they can’t keep up with the demand. The workers or baristas, they are now feeling overworked and underpaid. That has a really dire effect on the customer. And, you know, when we go in Starbucks today, we’re looking at the backs of everyone helping out the drive thru.

As we’re standing there trying to figure out how long it’s going to take to get our black coffee.  Exactly. It’s a shake. Cause like you think about it, it’s, it’s an amazing concept. Like this, this  mobile app absolutely changed the game and made it so convenient for customers. If we didn’t have that many customers and they didn’t figure out the operational piece of it, and how do you support that employee to make sure that, you know, that it doesn’t have that negative impact, because once you get those employees to the point where they feel like they can’t do it anymore, and they get completely frustrated, I had these, uh, I had a group of a focus group of employees that I was speaking to, and we sat down around the table and I was like, just tell me a little bit about, you know, what it’s like, um, to work here.

And one of the comments that the employee said was that it’s like having to go to work every single day or having to wake up every single day and pick which one of my three kids I’m going to feed.  Like, that’s what it feels like, because I can’t do everything. It was like, I can only feed one today. I can only do one thing and I have to let the other two starve.

And it’s just like, Ooh, that really just hit hard. Like,  yeah, I totally understand what he’s, he meant by that. It’s just, you can’t do it all. But when you have that mentality and those feelings inside of you that you just can’t do it all, you don’t feel like you don’t feel successful. And next thing you know, it’s going to drive down engagement and employees aren’t not going to be happy.

That’s right. So before we move into our next topic. Tell me what your deli fantasy is.  All right. I share this with a lot of the retailers that I talk to, because I think it’s important to understand like that. This is a true fantasy that I had when I was working in those stores and speaking to other people that I heard that it’s not very uncommon, it’s a pretty common fantasy, but I would wake up every single morning, get in my car and go to work.

And it was like a 15 minute drive. And I would just fantasize this whole time while I’m driving to the store. I was like, when I get to the store, I’m going to park as far away as I can in the parking lot.  And it wasn’t because I wanted to make, you know, give my customers the spots that were closer. That was a great benefit, but I knew that parking further away from the store would increase my probability of getting hit by a car on the way into the store.

Don’t get me wrong. I didn’t want to die. I mean, I just, I wanted to get someone to just back up over me just so I’d get hurt and be out for 90 days and just take it all.  That’s what it felt like going to work every single day. And like, I just couldn’t imagine still doing that. And I feel bad for employees that are still, you know, in this retail environment, in these stores, having these types of fantasies of like, just please end it.

Well, I mean, yeah, the excitement of going to work every day, right. That’s what we really want to create. We want employees that love going to work and want to show up every day. So tell me a little bit about is, is it, what is it? Hey, is that what frontline line workers really need? You would think, right?

Yeah. Give me, give me more money. And yes. Okay. Money is good, but it’s not like the end all be all. In fact, when I’m talking to employees, like they’re like, okay, cool. But it really, what it comes down to is I don’t feel appreciated. I don’t feel like I’m really a part of something bigger here. I have no purpose.

Like it just, they just feel lost and misunderstood is like the biggest thing for employees. So one of the tests that we ran in our stores was to figure out exactly, you know, what would increase engagement in store? And we try to test stores of let’s increase their pay and see how they do here and how engagement scores go up.

And then let’s do another test set of stores and let’s test out and see exactly what would happen if we were to just say thank you more often. Like if we were to say thank you when they came in and thank you when they were leaving and maybe a comment to them during the day. And those stores outperformed in engagement versus the stores that we got the higher pay.

Because when you give money, Yeah. When you give money, it’s like, it’s, you get like this dopamine high right away. It’s like, yes, I got, you know, I got a raise. This is awesome. But then you forgot. And then you’re looking for the next race. Like where’s my next hit. But with the appreciation, like it just was, it created value and purpose for the employees and for those retail associates.

And they felt like they were a part of something bigger and that’s really what helped them. I mean, if we look at like, you know, a great case study of this too, is Wegmans like Wegmans has one of the greatest engagement rates. I think it’s, that’s right. Yeah. Yeah, low turnover. I think it’s like, it’s like 7 percent turnover rates in an industry.

Seven? Like seven? Yeah, just the number seven. In an industry that’s like 60 percent turnover on average.  And what are they doing? I mean, pay is pretty average to the stores within their market, but it all comes down to the programs that they put in place that shows like appreciation towards their employees.

Like they have really great benefits that, you know, not only health benefit, and, you know, insurance like that, but like just these appreciation programs, wellness programs, they just aren’t involved with their employees. Um, so it’s not just a paycheck for them. It’s, it’s more than that. It’s a family. It’s a culture.

Yeah. And, uh, Wegmans always ends up on that top places to work list from fortune,  uh, 500. So yeah, they’re a great company and they’re very employee centric, as you say. Absolutely. Yeah, that’s, that’s a key to their success.  So everyone’s always worried. AI, AI, AI. Is AI going to take everyone’s job? What’s your kind of view on AI in specifically the retail employee workforce?

AI, I think can be our saving grace in retail. All right. I know it’s like a lot of people have that doom and gloom, like it’s taking jobs away, but let’s be honest. There are so many open jobs right now in the retail business. I think it was like 549, 000 jobs were open in the U S alone in retail, um, in June.

And that’s up the last three months and it keeps on rising. So,  There’s no shortage of jobs, so AI is not taking our jobs away. However, I could see AI saving a lot of the type of work that we’re doing in store, right? So right now, like we mentioned before, you’re creating these high intensity sandwiches, and you’ve got these 15 different focus items that you’re focused on, and you’re doing all these different things, plus you’re helping the customer.

AI can help us organize all of that and say, here are your top priorities. Here are the things that you need to do. And it could take away those like mundane tasks completely. Like there shouldn’t be no reason why an employee is taking stock of product anymore, right? It should all be given to AI and automation.

Like we have to start thinking about what can we take away from employees. So the employees can be consumer focused, consumer centric. That’s where they really need to be spending their time.  And. I haven’t seen any amazing case studies yet of this being executed because AI is so new, but I think the reason why I’m so optimistic about this is because of the way that Trader Joe’s goes to business now.

So what’s the similarity between that and Trader Joe’s? Well, If you look at the grocery store, Trader Joe’s grocery store, they have about 3, 000 skews in their stores. The average grocery store has about 30, 000 skews. So they’ve removed 27, 000 items, basically making it a lot easier for their employees to order, making it a lot easier for them to stock their shelves, making it a lot easier to learn about their products.

So they can provide better customer experience. So the hours aren’t like, they’re just completely gone. They’re still in the stores, but they’re now using those hours more effectively to be consumer centric. And that’s why they are like, you know, one of the better, better retail experiences that are out there today is because they just limit eliminated.

Most of the busy work, they were eliminated 27 items. So AI can do literally do the same thing, not just with items, but with the tasks that are on our plates every single day.  That’s amazing. So I just went to the ACE hardware convention in Chicago and they just did this beautiful new store redesign. And you can imagine like grocery, a hardware store has, I don’t know, tens of thousands of SKUs, right.

You know? And so when I was doing an official store tour of the new store rollout, which they had set up at the convention. They talked to me about how  I asked them out skew rationalization. And what they said is when we have a small footprint of a store, we have X amount of SKUs. And then when you go to the next larger store, and I know all our listeners can relate to this, you expand the SKUs, but what they did differently is they looked at those expanded SKUs and they found that there’s a large percent of those expanded SKUs that just don’t sell or have the profitability.

So you don’t just go from small to medium But you want to, when you do that jump, you want to either expand the skews that are really, really selling to on a broader scale or turn to other areas of the business, you know, other opportunities where you have more, uh, profit in those skews that you’re adding.

Does that make sense? It does. It makes total sense. Like, it’s got to, you know, just because you have more skews doesn’t mean you’re going to sell more. Right. You have to think about the right skews. Right. Absolutely. And that doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to fill every single space of the store.

Like I don’t even like challenge where maybe it’s about. That extra square footage should be used for retail experiences. Like, is there a space in there that, you know, you can expand out and show how a particular lawnmower works or set up a backyard to create like a backyard space with barbecues and coolers?

And how can you create more of an experience with that space rather than just put items in a, on a shelf?  That’s right. So let’s talk, you brought up employee turnover. Uh, so let’s talk about that. Tell me about it. It’s always been kind of like a real challenge for retail.  Yeah, it’s a turnover has been a huge issue for this industry for a long time.

And it’s not going in the right direction, right? More open headcount and people are leaving left and right. And it’s, it could be so daunting and crazy to think about, but I really don’t think it’s actually that bleak.  Uh,  right. It’s, it’s like, I don’t know. I guess I’m just an optimist maybe, but  when I think about like this, this turnover space, like I really wanted to figure out like, where is the turnover coming from?

And I’ve done a few different research projects on this to figure out exactly what’s happening in stores. And why are we seeing a 60 percent turnover up to like 90 percent turnover?  And what actually I’m seeing is that. It’s not a huge amount of people that are turning over every single year of your whole staff

It’s actually only a very small sliver that’s turning over. It’s almost like, the way I visualize this is it’s a revolving door. Right? You hire somebody, and then they quit.  And then they hire somebody, they quit a week later. Then you hire somebody, they go to lunch and they never come back. And we have like this small amount of employees, like 20 percent of employees of our labor force that are continually turning over and over and over, which is driving our actual turnover rate high.

Interesting. So it made me think about, well, well, that’s the way that we can actually solve this problem, right? It’s just like, if it’s only a 20 percent of our employees that are technically turning over, well, why are they turning over?

So I did a lot of like, just ethnographic research and consumer groups or employee groups figuring out like, What were the biggest issues that they were facing and why they were turning over. And it comes up time and time again, that, well, the employees that we keep on hiring  are the wrong place. Like we’re not hiring correctly.

And it was so interesting to think about that because then I went back into like, you know, I put my deli manager hat back on and try to remember what it was like to hire in that, in that, in those stores.  And then I remembered like, Oh yeah. For me, it was really a matter of.  Can this person like, you know,  stand and walk,  can, can they fog up a mirror?

Oh, cool. You’re hired. Please come to work. When can you start? Or you just wanted help. Like I was  some days I was by myself in a, in a store that was making over a million dollars a week in sales. And I was, you know, completely by myself behind the counter. Like I remember, you know, Superbowl Sunday working on a Saturday.

Afternoon and getting my whole staff to call out sick on me. Uh,  yeah, of course on a Saturday evening, I’m closing the store by myself. Uh, Saturday night in the middle of the night from around 11 o’clock at night till about six o’clock in the morning. I stayed to make platters. So, cause we had Superbowl Sunday the next day, I worked a 36 hour shift because I just didn’t have help.

So I was like dying for anybody to come to work. So I would just take anybody. So to, to take that job, but then they would get behind the counter and they would realize that this job wasn’t for them. It was just the, you know, a wrong fit.  So the big turnover issue that we’re having is actually just making sure that we’re hiring the right people.

So, uh, one of the things that we put into place, uh, after we found these insights was  how do you, uh, predetermine who is the right fit for your stores?  Making sure that, you know, they had experiences that would point to the direction that, okay, they would be successful in this environment. So not necessarily like, do they need to have a retail store experience?

Like if I were to hire them at Ralph Lauren, doesn’t mean that they had to have an experience working at Aeropostale or whatever,  we would just have to make sure that they had experiences that can relate. So like thinking about the deli industry, like you’re hiring in a grocery store. But just because they’ve worked in a grocery store in the past, doesn’t mean that they necessarily are good for the deli.

So are they, you know, food service, uh, past, like, do they, do they work in restaurants? Do they work in quick service restaurants? Because that’s what the place is like in the deli. Do they have, uh, you know, experience working weekends and evenings? Do they like that? Do they have success working in large teams?

You know, these are the things that you had to look at and say, okay, well, here’s the culture of our store. Here’s the culture of our retail experience. Do they fit our culture? And then if that’s a yes, they fit the culture, they fit the right, you know, the right, uh, attributes, then that’s the person that you should be hiring.

And it shouldn’t just be anyone that fills out an application that can fog up a mirror.  I think the other thing that’s important is the expectations are clear. So when I was working at Macy’s West, we would hire, um, receiving and stock associates that would have to work like in an assembly line. Uh, because it was, you know, unload the truck, you know, do a bunch of manual labor on the dock And uh, a lot of that has now been taken away But the point being is that when we ask people Although I just we would explain what the job is and we’d explain they’d be standing and we’d explain they’d be doing You know the same task over and over when they actually got into the job.

They’re like it’s not what I expected So the solve for us was very easy. We took our new hire orientation video that shows you how to do the job, and we showed that to applicants.  And so all of a sudden our turnover dropped, you know, 40 percent because what you’re seeing is, you know, the expectation. So I think it’s a really good point about, you know, hiring the right people and also making sure that expectation is aligned, not just telling, but maybe showing.

Oh, showing is huge. Absolutely. I love that concept of, of what Macy’s did there. It makes total sense. And just, uh, to give them like a complete, like, you know, Visual of exactly what your day is going to look like. I think a lot of us are visual learners and you can tell me you’re going to be so busy all day long.

You’re not going to stop. You’re going to be on your feet and you’re going to be doing something like this. That’s going to get an assembly line. Okay, cool. I’ll take it. You’re going to pay me, right? But then all of a sudden I see it. I’m like, Oh, that’s that just looks horrible. I can’t do this all day long.

No, I want it. I definitely want to get to the um, What you saw, you say the five Rs, and I know we’re running out time, but before we jump into that, ’cause I think the five Rs are really relevant. Not to be funny, but that’s your six R relevant, but actually I think it’s one of your Rs anyway, but okay. So training programs.

So back in the day we had a lot of training programs. We’re seeing less and less training programs. What’s your take on, you know, should they make a big comeback? Are training programs important? What does that look like today?  Yeah, training programs are absolutely a huge part of, I think, our success in the future.

But I think we need to re envision like what is a training program and how do, how do we make it relevant? Right? How do we make sure that it’s relevant that for our audience, we think right now, are you, are.  Our labor force is getting younger, right? They have a different way of learning. They have different ways of engaging with content.

We can’t just show them a computer based training video and expect them to answer a couple of questions and they’ll be all set to go. We have to think about how do we make it more interactive? How do we make it more on their speed? So I think we just need to start thinking about it a little bit differently of how do we create?

How do we gamify the training? Program, right? You know, how do you give them awards along the way? How do you make it more like a tick tock or a Snapchat environment? Um, and make it more fun. If we can make it fun and engaging, we can absolutely have training programs that are going to make a difference.

Uh, so absolutely. Training programs are part of the future. It’s just a matter of re-envisioning what we, we see them as.  And they don’t have to cost a lot because now, now with AI, we can like supercharge and get a lot of content out there, right? At lower costs than in the past. And I’m going to lead you with a, uh, before we jump into the five hours, I’m going to leave you with a scary or I don’t know, happy thought, here we go.

Next year, Jen alpha enters the workforce  and what you just said about the learning and the training and the, you know, modeling out, that’s going to be really key. So a lot of retailers and brands should be thinking about that today. If they haven’t already thought about that. Absolutely.  I got a gen alpha, started a job last week.

Oh, you did? Yeah. So it’s interesting just to see him into the workforce and learn about his training program. So I’m asking a lot of questions right now. Oh my gosh, that’s so crazy. All right. So training, uh, let’s talk about 5Rs. Just do a quick thing on the 5Rs.  Yeah, before we close out. Sure. So when we think about our stores and our turnover, I like to break them out into five different hours and be mindful about each of these hours.

In fact, if you go to my website, uh, the mindful innovator. com, you’ll even see, there’s an assessment that you can take that. Identifies which are you should be focusing on so quickly here we have to make sure that will first that we have the right employees, right? So we have the we have the recruitment piece of it.

So are we recruiting the proper people into those into those positions, right? So that’s the thing we talked about. First, we have to make sure that they’re also doing the right work, right? That is extremely important for us to make sure that we have employees that are are focusing in on the things that are going to make them successful.

So we don’t want to just, you know, Throw everything at them, but it really comes down to, are we having to do the right things and what can we get rid of in that job?  We then have relevant training, right? So what are the training programs that you’re gonna put in place that is going to be relevant for them?

We also then have, um, retention. You know, what are the retention metrics that you’re using and retention programs that you’re putting into place? Like I mentioned before, it’s all about, you know, the appreciation. It’s all about making sure that you have the right incentives in place. And it’s not just about pay.

So, um,  Oh my gosh. I think I just bombed on my five R’s. I think I forgot an R.  Oh, you didn’t forget an R, resources. Resources. Yes. Thank you so much.  So resources, another big one. And, and as a sticking point for me is making sure that they have the right resources in the stores, right? So when you think about like the stories of the sandwiches that I was creating, we didn’t have enough resources to do it.

So are you setting your employees up for success by giving them the help that they need? And if you think about which of those R’s. Are the biggest area of opportunity for you. Um, you can then start to create a strategy that’s going to help elevate the employee experience and stop your turnover by just focusing in on just one of those hours.

So I want to end, I know I said I was going to end, but I have to add one more story. You told me a story once that stuck in my head that I think every single listener is going to get the story. Can you tell the quickly the story about the lunch meat sample? And when you talk about resources, you know, when you go to the deli counter and they used to, you know, tell us, tell us that I don’t want to, I don’t want to steal your thunder.

No, so when you work, when you go to the Dillon, you shop those stores. The first thing you do is you say, Hey, can I get a pound of Turkey? And the employee is going to go. Yeah, sure. I’ll get you that for you. How do you like it? Sliced, um, thin. Okay, cool. They go and they get a slice of it and then they bring it over to you.

Right. And they say, Hey, here you go. Here’s a slice. Would you like to try it? Is that thin enough for you? Okay, cool. Um, this is take, it was only like three or four steps, like, you know, from the slicer to the counter and then back to the slicer again. But in total, that’s eight steps per transaction. How many transactions per day per employee?

How many transactions per year? Those are a lot of footsteps that add up into lots of dollars. So, Was it absolutely necessary? And then talking to your employees, you learn that I don’t need this slice of turkey. I buy this turkey every single week. I know what it tastes like. Just give me a visual that you’re cutting it properly and we can go on about our day.

I, the employee, the employee was doing too many steps and the customer wanted to get the heck out of there. So just taking away that slice and show aspect of the transaction saved so much money, uh, in operation costs. So just, um, Yeah, it’s amazing how you could just make these little tweaks, a couple of steps and there you go.

You have more successful employees and a better experience.  And the best part of that story is, and it’s true for me, and I’m sure it’s true for a lot of our listeners, I never wanted this sample anyway, you know? So from a customer service experience, you’re going through all this effort to give the consumer something.

You think they want, but they actually don’t want it. They just want to get in and out fast. They’re grocery shopping. They don’t want to, you know, they’re not luxury shopping, exploratory shopping. So I love that story. So it sounds like talking to you, Matt, we really have to kind of change our mindset from CX, which is customer experience to EX employee experience.

Right. Amen to that. Yes. It’s all about the EX because great EX creates amazing CX.  Thank you, Matt, so much for being on the podcast today. It’s great. How do people find you?  You can reach me at themindfulinnovator. com and also on LinkedIn at Matt Muller innovation. Great. And I want to thank all our listeners.

And if you have any suggestions, ideas, you want to contact us. If you go on the website, the Robin report. com, you can go under contact us and give us any ideas, suggestions, or feedback. So thanks so much. And thanks for spending time with us today. Talk about the employee workforce. Thank you so much, Shelley.

Great talking to you today.  for listening to Retail Unwrapped. We’ll be back in one week with another podcast. Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast service. If you have questions, ideas for a podcast, or anything else, please contact us via therobinreport.com.