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We need to connect and understand this workforce, you know, just as we did with, you know, Gen Z, et cetera. So listening and not discounting and, and truly responding. So the human capital leader has never been. You know, more needed, always a critical role, but the role today is, is just paramount in terms of connecting with the workforce.

Retail Unwrapped is a weekly podcast hosted by Shelley Kohan from The Robin Report. Each episode dives into the latest trends and developments in the retail industry. Join them as they discuss interesting topics and interview industry leaders, keeping you in the loop with everything retail.  Hi, everybody, and thanks for joining our weekly podcast.

I’m Shelley Kohan and I’m very excited to welcome Brenda Malloy. She’s the CEO of Herbert Mines Associates and Herbert Mines has been around for a long time. So I’m so thrilled to have you here on Retail Unwrapped and we’re going to be talking about. The next gen executives and executives overall, and what’s happening in the C suite, so to speak.

So before we jump right into our topics, Brenda, can you tell us a little bit about Herbert Mines?  Absolutely. First off, Shelley, great to be here and thank you for the opportunity to talk.  About leadership, which is something we are truly passionate about at Herbert Mines. So to your point, we’ve been here for 48 years, working squarely in, you know, we’ll call it retail consumer facing broadly.

We’ve seen lots of change over the past 48 years.  And there’s probably never been a more exciting time, you know, to be working at the top of the house, finding great leaders. So thank you again for the opportunity to chat.  Absolutely. I’m sure you’ve seen like a lot of change in the past five years, so we could talk about it.

So let’s, let’s start by saying, what is the anatomy, anatomy of a great leader? What does it really take? What does it look like today?  What a great question  and, and a question that we are still. Steeped in on a daily basis. So you could kind of say always, always a great leader. And let’s talk about, let’s start with CEOs.

They need to be very strong in strategy, vision, courageous around that topic. They drive results. I mean, at the top of the house, they execute, they ensure their teams deliver. They have a great lens. They know how to spot talent, attract, develop, and engage teams.  They drive engagement. They’re excellent communicators, both up, down, you know, and, with key stakeholders.

They bring, they put culture at the forefront of, you know, the company, in terms of bringing soul, meaning, and purpose. They’re relationship builders up, down and out.  They foster innovation. And today, you know, this list is not complete without being digitally fluent. And we’ll call it, you know, at the CEO level in, in consumer retail,  tech realists.

So there’s lots of bells and whistles, you know, coming out, but What’s right for the business they’re in. So big long list that really kind of boils down to they’re intellectually curious. They’re smart. They’re dot connectors. They’re customer obsessed. And it’s, and it’s fascinating, you know, how many specs we get where it starts with that.

We need to get closer to the customer. We need to understand our customer. We need to institutionalize that understanding.  the criticality of what that customer wants, not only from a product perspective, But from an experience perspective  of empathy, they listen, they seek to understand that they lead from the front.

They have energy  and you really don’t see a lot of ego. You know, we’ll say low ego there. There’s pride, but it’s not leading from an ego perspective. So today, as we lead up to this,  they need to be authentic.  They need to be trusted. They need to be transparent.  The, like I said earlier, the ability to see through the bells and whistles, you know, AI, whatever that might be from a tech standpoint and what makes sense.

They’re positive, they’re passionate. They’re fun,  , they enjoy what they’re doing. They create through that incredible followership engagement, and they’re supportive  and they value purpose.  So a lot, if you look at.  For instance, Joel Anderson, he just landed at Petco as the CEO. He had a phenomenal ride at five below.

And a lot of what he talked about was first of all, being transparent, wanting to nurture, wanting to encourage.  very, you know, positive in terms of what he’s going to do, having fun with what they do. And it was just a great, and it was on LinkedIn over the weekend. And it was terrific because it embodied a lot of these attributes.

You look at Mary Dylan, looks like she’s having a call and Foot Locker just steeped in it.  We’re huge fans of her, but you see, you know, CEO. So.  Let’s just say even six years ago, you did not see this.  out, you know, aggressively on LinkedIn, you know, or in the public domain. So this vulnerability, this open, this visibility, this transparency.

So let me ask you, I want to go back to something. You said something about one of the, one of the first things clients come to you for is about being very customer focused or consumer focused. So when we talk about getting closer to the consumer, how do leaders achieve that?  So, we’ve seen it obviously they lean they’re out in the stores.

I mean, they are out in front asking questions, seeking to understand  again, as I talked about, these people are intellectually curious. So. They are asking questions of everybody. They’re using data,  but they are at, they are in the stores. Many of them seeing what is happening on the front line. I mean, you could go back in terms of leadership to Alan Questrom.

I mean, one of the great retail leaders of all time. I’ve worked for him once. I was a little peon though. I was like, you know, I was a sales associate. Where was that? When he, Bloomingdale’s and Federated. There you go. So I was at Neiman’s when he was there and it was fascinating to see him come in. So we had this hypothesis of here’s, you know, here are the three to five things I’m looking for.

And he would just get out in the stores,  let’s say for 90 days, 120 days and come back with, okay, here’s what we’re going to do. So very mindful. But starts in the stores, starts with the customer and, and really putting that customer on a pedestal, you know, and gathering data around that. It’s so interesting.

I just interviewed Michelle Crosson Matto. She’s the CMO at Ulta Beauty. I interviewed her like last year, but when I asked her, cause she actually came from Samsung, which I’m going to ask you about in a second, not about Samsung, but. A different topic, but you know, she said exactly what you just said. She said, I literally spent my first three months.

I traveled to every store. I talked to managers, associates, customers, everybody. And when I tell people, you know, she created this thing called the joy project. And when I tell people kind of develop from that, people like, well, of course she went to the stores, but I mean, she really went to the stores, not just visiting stores.

There’s a difference, right? Yeah, there is a difference. And, and when you talk to people who are so clear on the customer, and frankly, in terms of their employees and the engagement of their employees, they are out engaging and they like it and they get energy from that. That’s right. So the other question I want to ask you before we move into our next topic is, so I mentioned, Michelle came from Samsung and we’re actually seeing more and more,  Industry leaders and industry, I mean, retail industry leaders coming from under other industries is is it working?

Are you seeing more of that? Great question. So you could say. 1510 15  years ago,  retail was very,  I don’t want. Very specific in terms of,  you know, and particularly within the sectors in retail. so today there’s some great examples and we just brought up Mary, but, but let’s talk about that.  Mary Dylan went into Ulta in 2013 when the stock price was 99 by June of 2021, it was 337 over that nine year period.

So where did Mary come from? She came from us cellular. She was a CEO sitting in Chicago, but prior to that, she spent 21 years in,  coming up, Quaker. So, you know, rising to president had a stint at McDonald’s then went into USL years. So CPG training, you know, multiple different roles. Going into another sector of McDonald’s in a marketing role, you know, her power alley and then us cellular, fast moving, you know, sector and then stepped into Ulta.

So she has just been in a breakout success and we see this same success coming into Foot Locker.  in terms of her approach, starting in the stores, as we talked about,  building the right team, but having a compelling strategy. So she’s a great example. A similar background to that is Lauren Hobart.  Same thing, CPG trained.

She spent 10 years, so she came into a marketing role at Dick’s and then stepped up to the CEO role in 2021 when the stock price was 67. It’s now 214.  But now that’s been obviously at stack has done a tremendous job at Dix, but to see Lauren’s incredible success. So, 14 years of Pepsi CPG train. So, 2 examples there.

Ryan Cornell at Target has gone in between, you know, retail between Safeway, Michaels, Sam’s, and then PepsiCo, back and forth, great example. Then you have kind of people coming out of tier one strategy firms, McKinsey, Bain, Ken Hicks.  McKinsey into May Company. JCPenney phenomenal Footlocker turnaround and then in an Academy turnaround.

Michael O’Sullivan spent years at Bain, went into Ross now getting, you know, building on. Tom Kingsbury’s, success at Burlington. So coming out as strategy consulting.  And you know, who else came out of McKinsey? Denise Incandela. There you go. Who’s doing a phenomenal job at Walmart. Oh my God. She is putting Walmart fashion on the map.

And I work with her at SAC. She’s an unbelievable leader. Unbelievable. She is. And the innovation that she is bringing in there is, is amazing. So what a great example. And then you have, of course, the tried and truth. Let’s when you look at Fran Horowitz, you know,  Bloomingdale’s.  What she has done at Abercrombie in terms of, you know, steps in to the role in February, 2017.

It’s the stock price is 1136. It’s now 137  years later. What is she doing? Unbelievable. He again is obsessed with the customer. That’s right. And what they’re doing and You know, navigating through what was an earlier tough situation, you know, and I’ve just done a phenomenal job making it relevant today.

And then if you look into say Jack Sinclair over at Sprouts and what’s happening there,  stepped in, in June of 2019, the stock price was 1864 it’s down 9883.  So I guess impact. So we’re hitting on, These are great examples of impact. So yes, long winded answer to, there are some great data points of people coming from other industries.

Yeah. And you just, you just mentioned a powerhouse of awesome executives and you mentioned, you know, leaving the eagle at the door, like can, can these leaders really do that? And what does that look like? Shelley, I’m so glad you brought that up. Yes, they can, and they do. You look at a Mary, you look at a Lauren, you look at a Ken, you look at a Michael O’Sullivan, a Jack and a friend.

They’re, they are great people. They care about people. They have empathy. They,  it’s just, I’m getting like chills. They’re just, you know,  Truly phenomenal people and authentic in that, right. And you can see the way they engage, how they talk, how they connect.  absolutely.  Low ego, which is great to see.

That is great. And I think, I think the other thing that, actually I learned this from you.  it’s, it’s about. It’s you’re actually, although you’re a CEO, you’re really kind of playing the role of advisor, right?  Yeah, we,  and we are so thankful to have the opportunity to play where we play,  because.

We get to really,  connect with leaders in a very intimate way, in terms of how they’re solving through their, their leadership challenges. And, and as you, you know, think about today, the word modern, you know, modern leadership, you know, we’ll see that, that word on every spec. I need a, you know, strategic business partner.

Absolutely. But a modern leader. And people really,  you know, boards, driving into this. So modern leadership is a C suite must have being in service. So,  we are in service of you’re seeing a flat structure that, functions working together in an integrated way.  so expediting decision making engagement.

You know, gone are the days of kind of the merchant prince. It’s really the C suite pulling together, each playing a critical role.  Yeah, that makes perfect sense. And when you mentioned earlier, the plethora of skill sets that is required, I, it’s impossible to have someone walk into a job that actually can do everything that you mentioned.

So having the ability to kind of, you know, listen to the people around you is probably real important. Exactly, and you could boil that plethora down  to really kind of four key attributes. Intellectual curiosity, empathy, drive, connectedness to people. I mean, take that whole, you know, laundry list down. It really boils down to those four key things.

So I also think it’s interesting,  that so you have this kind of,  leadership skills that are required. And then now we have kind of, and don’t even laugh, but Gen Alpha is entering the workforce next year.  Shocking, isn’t it? It is. And so, ha, ha, ha. And, and, you know, we’ve seen this with Gen Z. I mean, all the cultural shifts that happened, you know, in the workforce over the past five years, more so in the past few years.

But, you know, how, how do you lead this new generation?  So, I, I think you’re, the article, frankly, that you, wrote recently, is fascinating. Going through that, a lot of the attributes of what we’ve talked about today, Are the critical attributes needed in order to lead this generation?  So listening, empathy, authenticity, transparency, caring,  caring, and making that a priority that we need to connect and understand this workforce, you know, just as we did with, you know, Gen Z, et cetera.

So listening and not discounting. And and truly responding. So the human capital leader has never been, you know, more needed. Always a critical role, but the role today is is just paramount in terms of connecting with the workforce.  Well, first of all, thank you for reading my article. It’s in the ROM report for any of our listeners that want to read it about meeting Gen Alpha’s workforce.

But just to kind of throw some quick stats out there about this workforce, you know, they’re the COVID kids. They are globally connected. I mean, in a very serious way, they’re the first generation to be digitally documented since birth.  Wow. 66 percent prefer to buy from companies that make a positive difference in the world.

That’s great. And here’s a real killer that will be very interesting for you. 65 percent of gen alpha are going to work in jobs that do not exist today, which is fascinating. I love that in your article,  which is kind of crazy. And we talk about what are they looking for? They believe in fair treatment for everyone.

They are highly collaborative. They’re skilled in virtual learning. They’re super professionally connected before they start their careers and jobs. And they want to work for companies they see doing the right things.  Absolutely. I think you also had a data point in there that half of the, it’s expected that half will be college educated.

Yes. A very large percent are going to be college educated and they are by far the most diverse generation ever.  That’s exciting. I mean, it’s exciting. They sound engaged and,  you know, it’s great to see this type of person come into the workforce. so, as you look at the criticality and need for inspiring leadership,  you know, needs to play.

So, again, culture and how are we creating a culture of inclusiveness and engagement?  And probably  working in a very different way, you know, as we’re navigating through post coven right now, in terms of kind of,  you know, what is that hybrid model today? How are we seeing that play out in different companies? And is it working or not working?  And we see being being very attuned to whether it’s working or not working and that’s completely it varies by company by totally location  and what’s happening at the company are they in the midst of a turnaround, you know, is it is it scale up? So what is it? You know, where is it happening?

And what are the needs?  Yeah. So when you think about all this and now you have these young executives, you know, even millennials and,  Gen Alpha, you know, these young executives, what does it take for them to be successful? Like, what are the new success skills that we as the industry should be helping these younger generations achieve?

Yeah, so clearly they’re digitally fluent and they’ve checked that box,  but I think it is, again,  being curious,  asking questions, seeking to understand, seeking out, and a lot of this might sound like, Things that we’ve done in the past, but seeking out mentorship, how do you connect with people and how are you brought through the system?

Yes, people may be working in different ways, but  the whole notion of sponsors, mentors, guides.  The openness to doing that, being vulnerable, seeking it out is critical.  and again, whatever you’re choosing to do, Being immersed in it and and it goes back to if I’m in, you know, business serving customers, who are these customers?

What do they want? What role do I play? What role do others play? How do we do what we’re doing? So, a lot of those under, you know, pinning attributes have not changed, but I’d say.  Comfort with  being agile, flexible, nimble, seek to understand,  you know,  connecting the dots in terms of what’s out there and observation.

And I would say again, you know, as we’ve said before, customer obsession. So just being out there.  Yeah, I think the connecting the dots is big. There’s so much information. There’s so much,  not just information, but there’s so much out there being able to see what’s relevant and making those connections.

Right. Certainly.  No, we see that.  I can’t believe how fast our time goes, but I, I just flew by, you know, but I do, I do have one last thought. So I have this passion about women and leaders and, you know, Kind of rising above. So my big question for you is, why are we not seeing more women and BIPOC leaders in the C suite?

What is going on?  That’s a great topic, and obviously one we take very seriously. I mean,  we have, and our latest stat is, 100 percent of our board placements have been women or people of color.  we get specific NAY for that, so boards are taking it seriously.  53 percent of our placements are diverse, so diversity is something we take very seriously.

I do think, and look to our earlier conversation, the Mary Dillon’s, the Lauren Hobart’s, the Fran Horowitz’s, the Jackie Ardrey at Vera Bradley, who’s, who’s leading that turnaround, Hillary Super, who just went into Victoria’s Secret, which was a great placement.  so we are seeing progress. It needs to be faster.

But I think from,  we need to just continue to make it a priority. And ensure that we are mentoring, sponsoring, training, developing and giving women and people of color opportunities, which,  we are seeing more of that. And it’s a given that every search we do has a diverse slate. It’s not even it’s it’s it’s a given.

So, progress being made, not fast enough.  Great. Oh my gosh, Brenda, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. You’re amazing. Thank you. And you’re doing amazing things. So, thank you for what you’re doing. I love your podcast. Oh, thank you. I hope you’ll keep listening. Well, next week, let me just tell you, we have a hot topic next week.

So next week we have Kimberly Miner on and we’re going to be talking about DEI Woke. Why are brands pulling back? So that’s going to be a hot topic next week  and Kimberly Miner, she’s great. So  excellent. Well, Shelley, thank you so much. I hope you have a great week. Thank you. All right. Take care.  Thank you for listening to Retail Unwrapped.

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