Retail Unwrapped is a weekly podcast hosted by Shelley Kohan from the Robin Report. Each episode dives into the latest trends and developments in the retail industry. Join them as they discuss interesting topics and interview industry leaders keeping you in the loop with everything retail.

Shelley E. Kohan (00:03)
Hi everybody and welcome. Thank you for joining our weekly podcast. I’m Shelley Kohan and I am very excited to welcome to the podcast Greg Licciardi who is a adjunct professor of marketing at Fordham and Seton Hall universities. You’ve been doing that for like 10 years I think. You’re also a long time, right?

Greg Licciardi (00:24)
Yeah, 10 years or I can’t believe it. Yeah. It’s a labor of love though.

It’s a labor of love. I love doing it. So it has gone by fast. 10 years for sure.

Shelley E. Kohan (00:37)
And if you just look back on the 10 years, the students have changed so much in that time.

Greg Licciardi (00:43)
Yes, they have. You know, I have to have them shut their computers. Well, you know, a lot of them say they’re taking notes, but when their fellow students are presenting, I said, you have to shut your computer. So little things like that. Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (00:45)
I get it.

And everything in sound bites everything in sound bites ⁓ Well in addition to teaching what I love about your background is you’re an academic and you also have worked in the industry you’re currently vice president of sponsorships and partner programs at the Association of national advertisers effectively known as ANA right

Greg Licciardi (01:02)
That’s right.

Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (01:22)
And ⁓ even prior to that, you worked in the industry with a little tiny company called American Express, ⁓ Univision, and of course, Worth Media Group, who I actually love as well. And I know you’ve won a ton of awards. Your area of expertise is great. It’s all about marketing. And so I’m thrilled to have you on Retail Unwrapped. You also recently published a book called The Holy Grail of Marketing.

So you are like our marketing guru. ⁓ there it is. So I am thrilled and excited.

Greg Licciardi (01:55)
It’s…

It’s so amazing, Shelley, to be on your podcast. Thank you so much for having me. And thank you so much for contributing to my book. Shelley is one of my contributors and she did an amazing job. You are just such a professional and so knowledgeable on AI and retail. And, Shelley taught me what agentic AI is. So it’s, ⁓ it’s pretty cool. ⁓ but thank you again. It’s so great to be here. And, ⁓

Yes, I’ve been teaching 10 years. live in summit New Jersey with my wife and three boys. And, I am at the association of national advertisers, as you mentioned, which is an amazing organization. They actually wrote the forward prospectus of my book, Bill Duggan, who I met two years ago. I also was a judge for the B2B awards for the ANA. And, so the timing just aligned real nicely.

Shelley E. Kohan (02:44)
which is great.

That’s great. And ⁓ I love the framework and how the book’s laid out, but ⁓ today let’s focus on the amount of changes that has happened over the past, I’m gonna say like three years, but even in the last year, I feel like the marketing function specifically has just been warp speed ahead.

Greg Licciardi (02:56)
Yeah.

Yeah, ⁓ absolutely. And, you know, and that’s really what inspired me to write this book. ⁓ And, you know,

The marketplace right now is changing at breakneck speed with AI and new marketing data products that are coming onto the scene. It’s just really, it’s a lot to keep up with. And so, you know, as far as the framework, the ability to reach the right person with the right message and the right environment, delivering the right outcome at the right time, of course, that framework is really needed today.

because it’s evergreen no matter how fast things change no matter how much AI comes in and evolves it’s a really important North Star I call it for marketers to look at and the other thing that’s happening is as brands are increasingly becoming dazzled by AI what’s being lost is that brand purpose that emotional connection that they have with their most important consumers and so the important

Shelley E. Kohan (04:10)
It is.

Greg Licciardi (04:27)
of really understanding that not always taking because AI is very you know this Shelley AI is very easy to execute you can

You can put it into a marketing plan, do a switch of the lever and boom, you’re out bottom of the funnel. You can get conversions very quickly, but long-term, you really have to keep a focus on what your brand ethos is, that connection you have with the consumer, never lose that. And so we talk about that as well. ⁓

Shelley E. Kohan (04:56)
Yeah.

I think

when you mentioned kind of this North Star, ⁓ I think marketing, like the general premise has always been the same. know, getting the right, you know, target market, getting, you know, the message out clearly, being all that. But what’s changed tremendously is the process, how we go about doing it. And I love, you always talk about the AI paradox. So tell us a little bit about what you mean by that, why it’s important.

Greg Licciardi (05:17)
Right.

Well, it’s, you know, it’s so again, I’m going back to these new technologies. They solve for something, right? A lot of times.

⁓ they solve for a need to make the next quarter’s number, right? The next quarters. We’re, you know, I write about this in the book, you know, marketing is performance based today more than ever. You know, the average tenure of a CMO is now three and a half years. I think it’s going down even more because they’re accountable to every dollar they invest in marketing. They’re now part of, you know,

Shelley E. Kohan (05:49)
Hmm.

That’s crazy.

Greg Licciardi (06:12)
the revenue generation and hitting the numbers. You know, in my class, I talk about one of Matt Macher, the father of advertising his thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. His famous saying is I know half of my, advertising is working. I just don’t know which half. And like that can’t happen anymore. Right. Like you have to know every dollar that you’re investing, how it’s working for you, how it’s being effective. And you have to optimize that. So that’s really,

Shelley E. Kohan (06:20)
my gosh, of course.

Yeah.

Greg Licciardi (06:42)
what I talk about there in the book and the importance of having that human element to AI, like really never doing away with that because when the output comes, you still have to curate it. You still have to put it in your own words and to your own message that is, is, you know, consistent across all your different platforms. And that is really important today.

Shelley E. Kohan (07:08)
think there’s a couple challenges going back to what you said about CMOs and technologies. So you mentioned like there’s just a lot of technology that’s out there that can help us get to where we’re going, right? But when I look at like the technologies that’s out there, there’s a ton of different technologies that can help us all be better marketers. So I think a CMO’s job in the past year just got a lot more difficult. And I remember three years ago at a conference in New York City,

Greg Licciardi (07:18)
Absolutely.

Shelley E. Kohan (07:37)
and there’s bunch of CMOs there and they all were worried that, my God, AI is going to take all our jobs. Well, yeah, AI can do some of the work, but to be honest, you still need that leadership. You need that, you know, keeping everything intact with the brand ethos. And the other challenge with this turnover is, when CMOs are constantly turning over, that makes it a challenge for the business to continue its strategies.

Greg Licciardi (07:38)
Yeah.

Right?

It does. It does. And look, technology is good.

I had a, I was in between roles. was doing a consulting gig for a company called content square. And what we, what they did was they optimize for CX, you know, user experience and they had software that sat on top of, of web pages that would actually track a customer or a user hovering over a piece of content. And what the software does is it optimizes for.

the time to check out. From the time a person gets on a website to when they actually check out. And the software was super effective. One of the big accounts that we worked on was Goop, which is Gwyneth Paltrow, it is her site. Yeah, yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (08:55)
Love goop. I went to this store on

Long Island when I was out there.

Greg Licciardi (08:59)
yeah, they have retail stores now. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Amazing. ⁓ and, but they even goop, you know, they didn’t rely on UX, ⁓ on, on content square. They were really involved. went to this like dynamic at a dynamic page setup. And what that, that was beyond any thing that, ⁓ content square did, but what they wanted to really do was better the user experience on their site. And the big thing that they did.

Shelley E. Kohan (09:02)
Yeah, yeah.

Greg Licciardi (09:29)
was they looked at

with these dynamic pages, so, you know, the products that people purchase, right? So Shelley, if you went on to Goop and bought Fuchsia lipstick, right? Which, no, you’re not, it’s not quite Fuchsia today, but, but if you went on and bought Fuchsia lipstick, the next time you went to Goop, what would be on the front homepage? Fuchsia lipstick and Fuchsia nail polish and Fuchsia, whatever else women wear. and so that

Shelley E. Kohan (09:46)
Yeah

Of course.

Of course. Right.

Greg Licciardi (10:01)
It was almost service oriented because they knew your interest before you even got back to the site. And there it was. You didn’t have to find it, right? It was there for you. So those things are great. And that’s so much value to the user experience and to the shopping experience that I think, I think that’s the positive thing about technology today. But if you can couple that with.

Shelley E. Kohan (10:07)
Yeah, absolutely.

Greg Licciardi (10:25)
the human element of you not wanting to walk down five aisles to find something or five web pages to get to what you like. That’s amazing, right? That is increased value. So I think there’s a lot of positive things and the companies, the brands that get to those.

know, technologies, those innovations, those human input combined with it first are going to win and they’re going to gain market share and sales.

Shelley E. Kohan (10:55)
Absolutely, I definitely think there’s like a balance between the technology and the human connection piece of it. I’ve heard a lot of brands and people in industry talk about that. And I’m curious, where are we as a industry, ⁓ or I should say we’re consumers on this idea of what you just described about this.

hyper-personalization? At what point is it creepy versus helpful? Where’s the consumer at? Because, you know, sometimes I hear that it’s still kind of creepy and other times it’s like it’s a free-for-all.

Greg Licciardi (11:17)
Be bright.

That’s a good question. So when I came the other, the second inspiration to writing my book, The Holy Grail of Marketing was I got hooked on fast food during the pandemic. I love Wendy’s and I got hooked on their chicken sandwich, which is amazing and their fries. And so on Fridays, I was working from home and Wednesdays and I noticed that at 11 a.m.

Shelley E. Kohan (11:54)
so funny.

Greg Licciardi (12:01)
I was getting Wendy’s ads sent into my social feeds, right? At 11 a.m. with offers. And I was like, this is kind of creepy, but it’s kind of cool because I’m like, I’m hungry. I’m getting a better deal. I’m getting these offers coming to me and it’s adding value and I’m going there and I’m not going to Burger King or McDonald’s, right? So it’s a win, win, win.

Shelley E. Kohan (12:12)
Right.

Right.

Greg Licciardi (12:26)
But it was a little creepy. But then I thought about it, like, how did they get that info? They got the info because I wasn’t just going into the store and going through the drive-through and picking up. I was ordering before I went in so I could get on the Zoom call. Right when I got off the Zoom call, I would get my car and go pick it up.

Shelley E. Kohan (12:42)
Of course.

Greg Licciardi (12:47)
And so, yeah, it can be creepy. There are some things you do have to be careful and, you know, consumer privacy is real and you do have to abide by that, of course. ⁓ And, but in that case, it didn’t really turn me off. It was just kind of like, it was like, aha, wow, this is crazy. But, ⁓ you know.

Shelley E. Kohan (12:58)
yes, of course.

And

there’s a balance between like, so you like Burger King, you like the value, so it wasn’t creepy, although it was, you know, maybe it had a question to mark in your mind. And I think that today’s marketing algorithms are so much stronger than they have been in the past. So I’m gonna use your fuchsia lipstick story. ⁓ So it’s great if I buy fuchsia lipstick at Goop and then I get the nail polish, but at some point,

Greg Licciardi (13:29)
Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (13:36)
I don’t want to get the fuchsia dress, the fuchsia shirt, the fuchsia shoes, the fuchsia socks. Do know what I mean? So there’s more sophisticated algorithms today that can really personalize based on product attributes, what I like in terms of style and colors in a dress versus a shirt versus a skirt. So I think there’s a lot out there for marketers to kind of just be able to understand and then…

Greg Licciardi (13:41)
Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (14:03)
know, putting together a strategy is so much more complex than it was back, you know, in the Mad Men days where a lot of it was creativity, right? A lot of it was, you know, coming with this great idea and creativity. So is this, all this AI and accountability and performance metrics, is this killing creativity?

Greg Licciardi (14:24)
It can, if it’s, if it’s relied on too heavily and there isn’t the human curation combined with it. Absolutely. the agents that you taught me about Shelley, the, the agentic AI that’s happening is powerful stuff because it’s exactly what you, you said. It’s like, it’s, it’s not just giving an output exactly what you’re asking, but it’s giving you advice. It’s giving you.

curation. It’s giving you ideas that can inspire you to buy other products that might go with the product you purchased. So that’s powerful stuff that can add to the user experience. But

If it’s left to its own device at times that can move customers further away from who your brand actually is or who your store represents and the products that you sell. So it does have to, it does take time to nurture and you should never rely on just a bot or an agent. You should really be looking at it constantly.

Shelley E. Kohan (15:36)
Yeah,

totally agree. Let’s talk about the attention economy crisis. So you had a stat, which is kind of amazing, that you’re saying that people are exposed to between four and ten thousand ads every day.

Greg Licciardi (15:52)
Right. It’s crazy. And it’s just getting worse and worse because then the reason for that is we are on multiple devices. are…

We’re on digital more than ever, right? And we’re not just watching a linear TV show anymore, right? We’re watching digital two-way on our phones. We’re in the show. totally, we’re totally submerged. consumers, when they get these messages, multiple messages a day, become almost…

Shelley E. Kohan (16:17)
in the show Greg we are in the show.

Greg Licciardi (16:31)
you know, immune to them, right? They, they’re just kind of white noise, right? Because you block them out. It’s you want to get to the good consumers can consumers in control. They watch media where they want, when they want in the medium they want. And, and with that, marketers have to know that if the message coming to them isn’t in line with their interests and needs of that moment,

It doesn’t matter how much money or how many impressions they’re getting. ⁓ The cost per impression is just going to go down, down, down. It’s going to be a lot of wasted media. They really, you know, it’s it’s something that’s being watched very closely. And ⁓ again, going back to the CMO being accountable to every dollar they invest, just getting the impressions, just getting the impressions on the right environments.

⁓ it doesn’t mean you’re going to succeed. that’s why holy grail marketing, the framework is a holistic framework. Every piece has to work. could hire the hotshot ad agency to give you the best creative. Right. And you, and you serve that creative.

through a programmatic campaign that is on sites that are maybe unsafe or not on target with your messaging. It doesn’t matter how much you spent on that creative or how good it is. It’s not in the right environment. The engagement is not going to be there and can actually be detrimental to your overall marketing. So it’s…

Shelley E. Kohan (18:06)
think you mentioned

that like ⁓ nearly 30%, around 30 % of programmatic spend is actually wasted.

Greg Licciardi (18:16)
Yes. Yes. And that came out of an ANA study. So they did a whole study on programmatic, the ecosystem and the waste. it’s a brilliant study. ⁓ And it shows, and I think the numbers are even higher on that depending on the type of buy it is. But ⁓ yeah, it’s serious. So marketers are paying more and more attention to this. ⁓ And there’s more companies that are auditing advertising campaigns.

to make sure that they’re being seen by humans and not bots and they’re actually real impressions, right? So, ⁓ and that’s a positive thing for the whole industry. Not that, not the waste is positive, but it’s a positive thing that there’s more auditing happening ⁓ and more attention to it.

Well, hiring these auditing firms, definitely, but also…

Questioning your media partners and your programmatic partners on this. What are they doing to help their advertisers to have more real views, more views that are meaningful, that are producing results, that are driving impressions, that drive people to their websites or into their stores, ⁓ that they can measure and having more attribution that shows accountability. Accountability is key and that has to continue.

to come back into the industry. Unless there’s accountability on this, know, brands getting credits for unseen impressions or impressions that aren’t really real, ⁓ we’re going to stay in this same cesspool, right? So we got to get out of that. Everyone knows it. ANA is doing a great job communicating the importance of this change that’s needed. And our partners are as well to the ANA.

Shelley E. Kohan (20:11)
Yeah.

Greg Licciardi (20:23)
many of our partners see it and believe it and want to make the ecosystem better as well.

Shelley E. Kohan (20:30)
Yeah, I think that’s great and thank you for all the work that you’re doing with the ANA. They do a lot of important work for the industry. They’re like advocates for the industry. And so for our listeners, I’m sure all of our listeners know about the ANA, but on a marketing side, get involved, help out, join, I don’t know, do you have committees there too that people can join? Retailers and brands, yeah.

Greg Licciardi (20:39)
Absolutely.

⁓ many, many committees. ⁓

absolutely. ANA.net and you’ll get all the information you need. ⁓

Shelley E. Kohan (20:58)
That’s great.

So I was gonna ask you, the other thing is what I find really fascinating and interesting about, ⁓ I don’t know if it’s artificial intelligence specifically, but the ability now for marketers to reach people at the exact moment of when they’re actually about to purchase or make a purchase. So, and I think it’s because, and you can like school me if you want.

I think it’s because people are always connected and we know what they’re doing, we know where they’re at, so it has then given marketers this great opportunity to reach people in the moment.

Greg Licciardi (21:41)
it’s so powerful. mean, near field communications are so powerful. So if you’re driving by a Dick’s Sporting Goods and you get a mobile app, mobile phone alert, you know, this just came up this, this, ⁓ offer, know, American Express is doing a lot with that through their app and Starbucks has been doing it for years. but it’s powerful because it’s, again, it’s service oriented. It’s reaching the right person.

at the right time, the right message, related to their interests of now, in the moment. ⁓

It’s powerful. Right now with first party data being so important with cookies fading away, ⁓ marketers are being forced to look at new applications, new ways of reaching consumers and to optimize the ability to do that. And when I was researching for my book, one of the companies I came across was Weather Company and they are owned by IBM. recently were spun off and I interviewed ⁓ Randy.

types in my book, who’s a CMO, to ask her like, what are you doing around around weather? Because it sounds like what you’re doing fits into the framework. And it was it was a home run because what they do is they provide weather data to marketers to help them reach the right person at the right time related to weather with empathy, empathy related to the weather. So one of the case studies is elf elf skin care. Right. So cosmetics. I’m not,

Shelley E. Kohan (23:12)
That’s great.

Greg Licciardi (23:17)
You know more about makeup and all this stuff, but you know, there’s certain makeups. You’ll do certain weather, you know, if it’s humid out or, you know, things and, and ELF has done many studies on that. And they, they have a whole campaign around that. And it’s really powerful and it’s really creative and more and more marketers. know, Randy, she, she has a great quote in the book that, um, whether it was the original influencer before Taylor Swift, you know, right.

Shelley E. Kohan (23:44)
That’s so true.

Greg Licciardi (23:47)
You know it influences everything you do, know road trip, you know what you’re putting in the car where you’re going so

Shelley E. Kohan (23:50)
It sure does.

And it goes back

to the accountability thing. So one of my colleagues who’s been on Retail Unwrapped a few times does plan analytics and they do similar to what your friend does with weather and all of that. And I remember back in the day when I was in the stores many years ago, when sales were down, it was the quote unquote weather, right? Now, like you said, accountability.

Greg Licciardi (24:08)
Great.

Shelley E. Kohan (24:18)
You can say, actually, it wasn’t the weather. was 75 and sunny. What’s going on there in your store, right? So you have all this data that’s there. And weather does play such a big role. ⁓ One other thing I want to make sure we touch upon before we leave is, ⁓ so I don’t know if you know Imani Laners. She’s a powerhouse. And her job is, I think she’s VP of multicultural marketing. And so we started these conversations like three years ago.

Greg Licciardi (24:23)
That’s right.

Sure.

Mm-hmm.

great.

Shelley E. Kohan (24:48)
And I learned so much from her about multicultural marketing and the reality that’s setting in. And what I’m fascinated by, I hope you’ll talk a few minutes about it, but that is a $7 trillion buying power.

it mean? What should retailers and brands be thinking about? I know they’re already thinking about multicultural marketing, but what should brands and retailers be doing? How should they be thinking in that? ⁓ Why is it often like an afterthought as opposed to this proactive approach?

Greg Licciardi (25:11)
Yeah.

gosh, it’s so important. and the, the whole framework of the Holy Grail of marketing starts out with the right person. Okay. To, to reach the right person with your marketing campaign, right? You’ve captured the white space, the need in the marketplace. Now it’s like, who is the optimal person to have that need or want your product?

and how to reach them in the right environments. Right. And that all comes down to looking at who your demographic is of, and if it’s in the U S and it’s in LA or Miami or New York and the top DMAs, you’re reaching a multicultural audience. I mean, there’s no way you’re not right. And your message has to reflect who they are.

It has to reflect who they are, their culture, their interests. And if you don’t know that person inside and out, what their cultural levers are, interests, types of food, activities they do, their history.

you’re not going to have an optimal message. You’re just not going to have the message. It’s not a one size fits all. So you have to really look at how can you reach a multicultural audience most effectively. used to work at Univision. I think you’ve shared that in the beginning. And we would go out to US companies and consult with them on the fastest growing segment of the population, Hispanics, Third of the population. So if you

have a marketing campaign that speaks to Hispanics in those markets, you’re not going to win. You’re just not.

Shelley E. Kohan (27:13)
And it’s also, it’s interesting because

you have to peel back the layers. It’s not just looking at demographics. Demographics don’t tell you the whole story. You know, you could have a gentleman named John who’s 28 and because he’s John you think he’s American and he likes American things. But actually he is American, but he likes to be part of the Hispanic culture. He likes to be called Juan. He likes to eat, you know, Hispanic foods.

Greg Licciardi (27:18)
Yes. ⁓

No they don’t.

Shelley E. Kohan (27:43)
That’s not gonna show up in the demographics.

Greg Licciardi (27:43)
That’s right.

No, it’s not. And so we would go out at Univision and we would consult with companies. One of the companies I brought in was LG Electronics. They never did Hispanic TV, believe it or not. Samsung was eating their lunch and they were all over the air of ⁓ Univision at the time. But we the first few meetings was just bringing in my research team to share cultural insights on the Hispanic population.

Shelley E. Kohan (28:00)
You

Greg Licciardi (28:13)
You know, I mean, to educate them, you’re absolutely right. And we couldn’t say buy an ad without them knowing how to speak to this audience and to do it in, in language and in, culture, culture. So it’s very important. Absolutely.

Shelley E. Kohan (28:32)
So do you have a view on, so you have market segmentations and we have micro segmentation, which now is a lot more inexpensive than it was say five years ago. It’s a lot easier to micro segment and all of that in terms of the technologies we have. But at some point, like when do you stop? Like you could keep going down, down, down. Like is there, do you have a view on how far do you segment the market?

Greg Licciardi (28:48)
Yeah.

It really depends on the product or service that you’re selling. ⁓ You know, I come from the luxury world. You know, if you’re selling Ferraris, you want to go pretty far down. You want to get as narrow as you can to the most affluent top 0.001 % of the population, right? ⁓ But, you know, you can hurt yourselves if you’re doing segmentation. If you’re too narrow because you may be

missing out, know, in luxury, there’s also the aspirational luxury, right? Consumers that still buy Louis Vuitton, may not be able to necessarily afford it, but they’re aspirational and they’re buying, they’re still buying it. ⁓ So ⁓ it’s important, again, it’s based on the product and service, but I think being too hyper segmented, can…

Shelley E. Kohan (29:33)
Right.

Greg Licciardi (29:58)
You know, you could be, you know, spitting off some potential consumers that might be getting lost through that hyper segmentation. But again, the more targeted you are, the more your dollars are going to work for you because you’re going to reach that audience, that person who would have the most need and be most responsive to your product or service. So, but you just don’t want to overdo it. Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (30:24)
It’s that ROI, right? That very

targeted market brings you a better ROI, so you kind of have to kind cast the net and figure out how deep are you going to go in terms of that.

Greg Licciardi (30:33)
Yeah.

Yeah. And you can test it. The beautiful thing with ⁓ automation today even is you can do A/B testing very easily and test different audiences and segmentations and see before you pour your whole budget into it.

Shelley E. Kohan (30:51)
⁓ I think that’s great. When I was doing testing like even 15 years ago, we’re talking, you know, six to 12 week, quote unquote, test. Now it’s like very fast and quick. So that’s another advantage to what’s happening today. So any closing thoughts that you have or wanna leave with anybody in terms of, you know, where marketing’s at?

Greg Licciardi (30:54)
Yeah.

Yeah, would just say, and again, thank you so much for having me today. I would just say, we all have to upscale. We all have to really take time with our staffs to make sure they’re up on the latest trends in AI and new technologies, but also instill the humanization into what we’re doing. Do not ever lose that. And ⁓ so I think there’s a lot of tools out there. I hope everyone enjoys the Holy Grail of Marketing You can simply go.

to holygrailofmarketing.com to get a book or to read about it. I’m on all the major book sites as well. ⁓ I think that this conversation was really informative and your show and your podcast is doing such a good thing for the industry and your expertise across all the great journals that you write for Forbes and on ⁓ really benefit from your intelligence, Shelley. I’m happy to be part of it. ⁓

Shelley E. Kohan (32:15)
Thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on the podcast. And I want to thank our listeners. Our listeners are why we do the show. So if you have any suggestions or ideas, go to therobinreport.com and fill out the contact us. And thanks again for being here.

Greg Licciardi (32:32)
My pleasure. Take care.