Haley Boehning (00:41)
T, it is so good to have you on Lead Like Her. Thank you for joining us today.

T (00:47)
I’m so excited to come and hang out with you for a spell, Haley.

Haley Boehning (00:51)
Great. So earlier this spring, I met with a group of students at FIT who are getting ready to graduate in the next year. And many of them want to go into the retail space. And one question that every single one of them asked, that I thought I would ask you, is how did you get your first job in the retail industry?

T (01:15)
Yeah. So I mean my very first job, I worked at the Gap when I was in high school. and so that was something that I hoped and thought might be a doorway into the cool kids. Didn’t work out that way, but that was my first foray into retail.

Okay, so in my grown up life, I worked for a company that’s kind of like Cafe Press or Zazzle. I was the head of marketing there, where anyone can upload anything and get it printed on a t-shirt for, you know, for twenty bucks. And it was a little bit of a complicated relationship. One of the founders was the kind of guy that walked around the office barefoot and said he had Steve Jobs was having a Steve Jobs moment and

And sexually harassed all of the all the employees, female and male. And and so he was very, very well c I think the word is problematic, but but the other founder, the technical founder and I saw some really interesting trends. So this is in the in in 2010, 2012 era, where Tumblr was raging and all of these tiny social identities were really, really convening. And so we saw that really that kind of a business is a content business.

where people wanna print things and wear them as they move through the world to say things about themselves. And so the technical founder and I of that company left and and built a company called Print Syndicate. And what we and what I realized in that moment was that despite what people’s parents tell them, most people are not artists. And so those kinds of open marketplaces where anyone can upload anything are full of really poorly designed stuff.

But the real window of opportunity was that there were so many communities and so many constituencies and social identities that were unserved when it comes to products. So think cat ladies, introverts, alien believers, the gays, like and plant daddies, like just all these really, really niche communities that people want to express their social identity and belonging. And so we started in the hallway of a friend’s another friend startup.

And

hired some art kids from the Columbus College of Art and Design and used on-demand printing processes and so and launched what we thought was going to be a really fun project and ended up doing four million dollars in sales in our first year, over fifty million dollars in sales in our first five, and and to date over 150 million since it since inception. And

Haley Boehning (03:43)
Yeah.

T (03:44)
but the core of that business really was one, it was something that I couldn’t not do. So

I grew up in a small town in Missouri as a in a Mormon family in a in a mostly white evangelical town. And didn’t realize I was gay. I was an extremely late bloomer, still working on the blooming part, I think. But you know, I realized that there are very few spaces for me. And, you know, no one is making products for me. And I think and so I think that that was really the profound opportunity with Look it’s lookhuman.com. is that people

No one in America needs another t-shirt. And yet, people gave us premium pricing in order to put an object on their bodies as they literally move through the world to say that they belong somewhere. And so, you know, if you asked anyone on our team, whether it was the artists or the printers, we would say we are in the business of self-expression. And so that has, you know, so that really informed how I think about retail and brand in particular, is that great brands offer.

Self-expression, aspiration, and belonging at the core. Like because we all select things that we put on our bodies. And even if people are like, I don’t care, they do because they are choosing something and and saying something about themselves, but often it’s to indicate belonging. And so that was the really kind of my first foray into retail. It was more existential in a way. and and something that I felt was a chance to share with

other people in a really meaningful way. And it was so exciting to see see it out see you know, see our shirts out in the wild. We made Ruth Bader Ginsburg a pop culture icon, which was super fun. And yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, yes,

Haley Boehning (05:23)
Yeah. RGB, notorious RGB. I remember that T shirt.

T (05:28)
yes. And, you know, but it was just really you know, really a great opportunity to to really see self-expression. because I, you know, ’cause for a long time I I didn’t grow up understanding fashion or any my mom’s a seamstress, so I have, you know, some buried photos of me and my five sisters in matching

floor print dresses that will hopefully never see the light of day. but I didn’t understand fashion, but then I think that that you know, or or even retail, but I did understand like kind of the existential rationale behind it. And then I would say for anyone that thinks they want to start a business, I think having a very clear point of view and it’s gotta be something you can’t not do because building a business is really brutal.

Haley Boehning (06:09)
Yeah, a lot of the students that I spoke with at FIT asked that question about starting a business. And they’re just starting out in their careers and they’re looking at the retail industry and thinking, well, maybe I want to go out on my own. That I imagine that change, you know, you you started in the army

and

T (06:27)
Mm-hmm.

Haley Boehning (06:28)
you know, you had your experience at Gap. you worked for other people, but making that leap between being an employee and working in somebody else’s team.

And starting your own business. how did you think about or how did you manage like leading yourself through that transition? Are there any lessons you can share?

T (06:49)
Yeah, I would say I mean the army was actually a really powerful experience for me because I signed up for college money and ended up going to war, but but I was an Arabic linguist and and the army taught me a lot about being resilient and adaptable and decision making, like getting things mostly right. you know, ’cause I think a lot of times people want to plan and have a whole business plan.

And then they try to execute against that. And I think being very flexible and creative and curious. But I would say that, you know, one of the reasons behind my ability to pull any of this off is to be surrounded by brilliant, wonderful people who are extremely generous and have been able to give me a lot of great advice. And I’ve been a very hardcore reader. I think that it takes immense curiosity and a willingness to learn. because you have to know your numbers and you have to know.

you know, technology and you have to know whatever it is to pull it off. It’s not just having a world view. and I think that if you and but a worldview is required and high conviction in that worldview is really, really important because you know, any business building is a slog in the mud. It’s brutal. It’s like, do you like breaking rocks in the hot sun and then digging a hole and then putting those rocks in that hole and then covering them and then

Digging them out of the hole and breaking rocks in the hot sun, because it is it’s it’s really, really hard, but it is also you know, phenomenal opportunity and and extremely rewarding. and even, you know, and there are highs and lows that are unimaginable in if you have a normal job for the most part. but I do bel I I deeply believe that business can be a lever for impact and one in how you deal with your customers, but the first step in that is how you treat your own team.

you know, like it like I’ve always believed in paying living wages before that was a thing. And so it was very powerful to see even with our frontline employees, the people printing t-shirts, that they were able to really have meaningful change in their lives by because we took care of them. So I think you

Haley Boehning (08:54)
Yeah.

T (08:54)
know, there’s a lot of lot of considerations that go into business building. But I think finding and asking for help, like I, you know, I mean, actually one of the folks from FIT that you introduced me to and I have been having calls and

You know, I’m always I’m ga I’m always game to help other entrepreneurs because I’ve had so much help myself.

Haley Boehning (09:10)
That’s great. Yeah, tell me a little bit about that. So it’s it’s in hindsight, everyone’s career looks very well planned and and almost like it it had to happen, right? It’s inevitable.

T (09:21)
Yeah.

Haley Boehning (09:22)
But I know there were moments along the way where it almost didn’t happen. Could you share one of those those moments where where things were not going well, where where there was a moment that that the the success that we now see has played out in your career?

was at risk and and what happened and what did you learn in that

T (09:44)
Yeah, I would say I would say that I I would say if you look at my career trajectory, no one would say it was well planned. I got out of the army, I went to school, I got a fellowship, I moved to Syria on an academic fellowship, and then came back and never finished school. and then ended up working for some tech dudes that and I was like, you know, I figured out how to how to do tech stuff. But you know, I would say part of my trajectory as an entrepreneur is that I’m not particularly employable.

Because I’m willful and I have some authority issues and I swear quite regularly and I don’t own a dress and so there’s a lot of reasons why I’m probably not a great corporate functionary. but I would say that you know, for me I it was always around pursuing what I couldn’t could or that I couldn’t not do. and seeing opportunities where, you know, often it was an iteration on something else. like on demand printing t-shirts existed, for example.

But it like in Print Syndicate, one of the big challenges was we raised venture capital and you know and some of our investors were wonderful, like the founders of Zappos were so great and so focused on culture. And and then, you know, another one of our investors really didn’t understand our business and thought we were a t-shirt business. And you know, and and so that existential mismatch was really, really, really difficult. And we were under this pressure to create content that didn’t align with self-expression.

through exceptional design, which was really our purpose. And we were very, very intentional about that. We weren’t necessarily choosing sides, but there was definitely a very clear worldview of openness that would maybe alienate some people who are not open. And so, you know, I would say, but that was really, really hard because you have, you know, you take in millions of dollars of capital with an expectation to grow. And then that worldview mismatch and values misalignment is really, really, really brutal. And so, you know, it’s something that

Going forward, I’ve always been very thoughtful. If I’m gonna bring in outside capital that they have to deeply be s we have to be spiritually aligned. ‘Cause I would say that’s I mean, it’s so hard. It’s so, so hard.

Haley Boehning (11:50)
Yeah. Yeah.

That’s a great, great story. Thank you. you said earlier that you’ve had mentors and people who’ve kind of helped you along the way. And asking for help is a big part of doing doing something that you want to, you’re passionate about. I wonder, could you talk a little bit about some of those mentors and what was particularly impactful for you in those mentoring engagements?

T (12:18)
Yeah,

I I would say i it’s it’s really powerful to have someone like as you wade through the crises, the perpetual crises and the and the existential challenges of of building a business and running a business, to have people that have seen it before. so one of my dear friends and mentors, Tani Crane, is a is a well known entrepreneur and and business and and business leader in Columbus and

You know, so it was not just we you know, we became very close friends, but we started you know, she started out as my mentor and and part of that was just in ha thinking about teams. and you know, because going in, you know, when you when you make hires, sometimes there are really, really wonderful performers who are really, really horrible people. And and so, you know, learning’s kind of accelerating some of those lessons. Like certainly I learned a lot of my lessons the really, really brutally hard way.

But I think having people who have seen stuff before weigh in and help give perspective, which is like it’s not worth it to have a great performer poison the well is a really powerful lesson where you’re like, I know, but it’ll have a huge impact on the business or whatever, whatever, especially when you’re tiny and you know, but there are a lot of lessons. Or you know, Larry Hillsheimer, who was a high powered CFO, was a great mentor to help me really understand.

the math of the business because I think a lot of people don’t know how to speak to that and and you know you live or die by pennies and nickels and dimes in the in the PL. So I think that’s something that’s really, really important. And and then also Lance Lessinger, who’s a Titan of retail, was on my board at Prince Syndicate and and but he is wrote a book about the service profit chain, which is about how taking great care of your employees is so important and that it has a positive impact on the business overall. And so

It was really powerful to learn at the feet of Len, who is, you know, like a truly one of the greatest thinkers that I would say in retail. So

Haley Boehning (14:21)
Let me ask you a little bit about that. So you you mentioned earlier that at Print Syndicate, and I know at your other companies like Wonder and other businesses that you’ve been a part of, this idea of giving back, doing the right thing through the business, not just we’re going to give some money to charity, but we’re actually going

T (14:38)
Mm-hmm.

Haley Boehning (14:39)
to lock in to our business model, having a positive impact on the world and doing good through business. What I hear from a lot of folks is I’ll do that later.

You know, once we become really successful, then I’ll be able to do something. But you made some of those decisions at a time when as as Larry would have looked at your numbers and said, Wow, you’re you’re you’re starting out, you’re early. you

T (15:00)
Mm-hmm.

Haley Boehning (15:01)
know, how did you make that decision and and what impact did it have on on your team?

T (15:07)
Yeah, so there’s a two part of that. One is the math. So for example, when we were training our printers, there was a lot of investment in the training part, and our best printers who had longevity were the most productive. And so versus a brand new printer. And so there was the and a lot of businesses don’t think about the math of turnover, which is like, what does it cost us to have a good person out and then train somebody up to that level? And so, you know, we came up with an internal formula on that. We’re like, we should incentivize our printers to stay.

And

want to become more productive. And so there was an alignment between incentives for the business and for the team. so that I would say, you know, that I think more if more business were thoughtful about keeping their best people versus like, well, let them go and we’ve always got new people that want to come in, because you know, there’s something about cohesion and culture and morale when you have a high-performing team. I would say on the existential level, if you look at me.

I have a really hard time thinking about participating in extractive capitaliz capitalism, th be it, you know, f finance, insurance, real estate, cotton. I can’t do it. And so I am not you know, so it’s like I have I think about capitalism as an inclusive opportunity where everyone can win. Like employers do have the opportunity to help bring their

team up, even their frontline team up to the middle class, you know, and instead we have some massive corporations who in their employee onboarding teach them how to get food stamps and apply for government assistance. So then it’s just subsidized by the taxpayer. And so, you know, there’s a lot of so even then on the math side, I think it’s wrong. And then existentially I also think it’s wrong. And like I said earlier, like community impact starts with how you treat your own team.

Haley Boehning (17:00)
you know, I think of you, T, as such a highly confident person. You know, you’re driven with this passion, you have these visions that you you just have to get up every morning and try to realize. I wonder if you could share any moment of doubt that you had as you were.

you know, in your early leadership or or your recent leadership journey that might might help some of our our emerging leaders think about their own leadership.

T (17:29)
I mean, I would say on a r reasonably regular basis, sometimes I open my eyes in the morning and just do a an exhale of f*** So I would say, you know, I often have self doubt because even, you know, even when I have high conviction, it doesn’t mean that the market will necessarily respond or that it’s worth doing. and, you know, I’m very driven by impact and

So I have a tension and a frustration by the scale of the impact that I would like to make and then the activities that I’m doing where I you know, I often wonder am I working on the right things? And you know, but also we g you gotta eat and you know, so it is it’s a huge challenge. But I would say

Haley Boehning (18:16)
So what

what what do you do to overcome that when when you have those moments of doubt?

T (18:20)
I just work. You know, I think it’s it’s n it’s not paralyzing, but it is an opportunity to sit and take a moment to reflect. ‘Cause I I really see kind of business building and my general path in life as like kind of a meander through the woods, which is like, Okay, first of all s you have to step into the woods and then you have to kind of have a sense of am I directionally going in the right way?

And then there’s quicksand and monsters and you know, all kinds of f***ery in the woods. But I think it’s just really like, am I generally on the right path? So I kind of take those moments of self-doubt as an opportunity to reflect. And sometimes that means I kill projects that I’m working on. And sometimes it means I have deeper resolve to persist. and I you know, that resolve to persist I think has has, you know shown up a enough that

that I’ve managed to, you know, continue to feed myself all these years at this point.

Haley Boehning (19:19)
So resolve to persist to me reads as resilience. you

T (19:22)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Haley Boehning (19:24)
know, throughout the the career, resilience that kind of builds on resilience. Anything, any advice that you could share on how to, I don’t even know if it’s a term, practice resilience.

T (19:37)
I mean I think I think that for me I’m a I’m a hardcore reader and I think that s great stories are really, really powerful. you know, there are people that have overcome such immense adversity, women in particular, that you know, and I have a I have a writing project around kind of stories about those types of women because you know, when I think about our lives in the modern era, even though these are very trying times,

I would argue that this is a rare opportunity for someone with my background that looks like me to have created the life that I have in this country. And it’s why I’m still bullish on America despite all of the goings-on, is because truly it’s the only place in the world that as a gay, black, ex-Mormon woman, veteran from a small town in Missouri without a college degree, that I can could have built the life that I have. And so I think which I’m grateful for, but I think that, you know, stories are about survival. And there are so many stories that

I

draw inspiration from and context from where you know I think I think having that context is really powerful to to keep going and and it’s yeah it’s motivating. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Haley Boehning (20:48)
Great. It definitely helps me as one of your and one of your subscribers and readers. And we will link to

that that substack in our in our notes.

I don’t know if you can choose just one, but I

T (20:58)
Mm.

Haley Boehning (20:58)
wonder if you could share a rule that you broke or bent in your career to succeed in the way that you wanted to succeed.

T (21:11)
my goodness, I would say

There are so many. like black w like black women

Haley Boehning (21:20)
I gotta think about let me let me refr

T (21:21)
raising capital, generally speaking, is a is a statistically is it’s a it’s not maybe it’s not a rule, but it’s it’s it’s math. yeah, I would say that I don’t as a non as a as a never conformer, I I reckon, except for even my time in the except for my time in the army where you ha I had to, I don’t

feel a sense of constraint by well it’s it’s things are have how things are supposed to be done. I guess if you were to talk to my mother, she’d say I’ve been contrary and disruptive my whole life. and so I think that that’s probably kind of at the core of it is that I I approach a lot of things with curiosity and and imagination and don’t bind myself to how something is supposed to be done. like I’ve never written a business plan

For

example, in my life. having said that, I know the math in my business like to the penny. So, you know, I think that there are a lot of ways that people think a business has to be built or should be built, that I don’t pay attention to.

Haley Boehning (22:32)
That’s good. So on one of your, I think I’m gonna touch on a topic that’s one of your favorites. What in specifically in kind of the retail industry where a lot of our listeners are are hoping to build a career or build their business, what do we whisper about that we need to say out loud?

T (22:52)
I mean, I would say something that I’d say out loud that other people probably whisper about is thinking about not only sustainability but also the implications of how many of these operators function. So, you know, as I mentioned earlier, like I think great brands are about self expression and aspiration and belonging. And I think many brands and and also at the core often self esteem.

is also tied to that. And I think many brands are highly transactional and even counter to the idea of self-expression aspiration or you know driving self-esteem. And you know, and as we see, like I think in the beauty industry and in the apparel industries and and in the wellness industries, there’s a lot of toxicity and messaging that makes people feel bad about themselves.

And I don’t believe that that is required in order to build a successful business.

Haley Boehning (23:55)
Hallelujah.

So let’s let’s talk about legendary women, shall we?

T (24:03)
Yes.

Haley Boehning (24:04)
So you’re now writing about history’s legendary hoes, H-E-A-U-X, women who might have been called inappropriate or hysterical in their time, maybe their time is today. I wonder if you can talk a little bit about what drew you to their stories and what they’re teaching you right now about your story and about the time that we live in.

T (24:27)
Yeah,

so there’s a few there’s a few, I’ll I’ll just we’ll do a quick tour through my brain on how I how I arrived at this this project. So thing one is I was really in you know in the last few years I’ve really been re reflecting on the backlash that we’re living in around Me Too and Black Lives Matter and you know a lot of these movements that really had momentum for a spell. And one of the things that I really sat with, you know, like is that so Audre Lord said.

The master’s tools will never dismantle the master’s house. And for years, most of my life, I thought she meant pitchforks and guns. And then when I really thought about that and reflected on kind of this backlash, I realized she was talking about shame. And that shame, I would argue, is the primary tool of oppression. Now being raised Mormon, there’s a lot you know, the first time I got called a hoe was when my shorts were about mid-thigh. I was a ten or eleven, right? So I you know, so I think I’d say that’s a big piece of

an aspect of these movements that people push really hard back against. And and so that’s like kind of one pillar of how I got there. The other is I’m a linguist by education. And I would argue that every language that I know of has dozens of words for promiscuous women that are all negative, none for men, and hundreds of euphemisms. And I would also argue that all women on the earth will get called a hoe at some point in their lifetime, regardless of what they’re doing. And sometimes to grave consequence, like

Honor killings. so that’s another another component. And then the third is when I was young, I was a math lead. That will probably surprise none of your listeners. And I when I read Hidden Figures, I think it was like a decade ago, I wept for like a week. I could probably cry if I really sat with it for like two more seconds. Because if I had known that black women with math degrees put those white boys on the moon.

It would have changed what I thought was possible for myself. Because when I was growing up, you know, black women in pop culture, I mean, it was Oprah, she was still kind of doing trash TV. She’s not the titan she was is today. And, you know, black women are in very archetypal roles, which they still are for the most part in entertainment and music. And so there was no kind of path for like a nerdy black girl to go forth and do math. and so I think.

Though I so I I really think, and as I said earlier, the stories are about survival. I think it’s really important because so many women have changed the course of human history and those stories are buried. And so, and so, you know, the other the other and then the final component of legendary hoe is that we’ve all done things we didn’t want to do in order to get something we wanted. So we are all hoes. The only question

Haley Boehning (27:15)
Ha ha.

T (27:15)
is, are you legendary? And so

Haley Boehning (27:17)
Yeah.

T (27:18)
So I yes, I research and write about legendary hosts from history. I do a little bit of editorial work sometimes. I think I’ve got to kind of re revive my Travis Kelsey’s Gold Digger piece, based on the the July fourth weekend. No, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Haley Boehning (27:31)
The recent royal wedding. Yeah.

T (27:33)
Which I mean the other title could be a treatise on women and capital, but I th I felt like the Travis Kelsey title’s a bit more clickbaity and fun.

But yeah, but it’s

Haley Boehning (27:39)
Yes.

T (27:41)
a bit nerdy, but it’s you know, but it’s a way for me to channel my rage. and

Constra consternation about these times. So but yeah, it’s it’s a lot of fun for me. And the Hodega,

Haley Boehning (27:50)
Thank you. That’s great.

T (27:53)
our retail arm will be opening soon, so

Haley Boehning (27:56)
yay. I’m excited. So

I know we’ve got we’ve got a lot of content already. So I want to before I go into the rapid fire round, I thought like one final slightly reflective question. so I wonder if there’s one piece of advice that if you could you would give to your younger self just starting out in your career.

T (28:18)
Say, okay, there’s a there’s a couple pieces of advice that I would give to my young self. One is be very, very thoughtful about who you choose as your partners and make sure that you share the same long-term vision because it takes a lot of stamina and a lot of trust to build a business with another person, and it’s really, really important that you have the right teammate. and even then.

There are structures that allow you to protect yourself and the equity in the business so that you don’t give half the business to somebody who’s gonna leave quickly. I would say a story that I that didn’t happen to me, thankfully, but some one of that one that I know and and Haley, you do know these people, is there were two partners and one of them was taking money out of an ATM at two o’clock in the morning. And so while they started to make money, one partner said, Let’s reinvest, and the other partner said cocaine. So it can go off the rails very, very quickly.

Haley Boehning (29:13)
Yeah. Yes.

T (29:16)
So I would say be very thoughtful

Haley Boehning (29:16)
Yes.

T (29:17)
about your partner and protect and protect the business and your equity because it is harder to break up from a business partner than it is to get divorced and and often far more expensive. So that would be one piece is to be really, really thoughtful there. and even then put structures in. I would say the other the other piece is to make sure you have legal structures in place and you can get free advice. There’s you know, you can you there’s a lot of

Stuff you can download from like Y Combinator and other websites in order to get the kind of basics you need, but that protects you and you, your partners, and the business. And ’cause often sometimes f***ery in the beginning will hinder your ability to raise capital or succeed f later on. And and you have to think about this as a five or ten year game. it’s very rare that people spin something up and then sell it. and I would say as as another add-on, don’t build to sell, like build a great business and you have options.

And then I think the other one that for my very, very young self would be to really understand the math of business. And because I think that a lot of people think they’re making money and it’s you know seeping out or or dr or draining out really, really quickly. But I would say really, really understanding business math is key and even just the basic fundamentals. You don’t have to get crazy, but I think that that’s really, really

Haley Boehning (30:33)
Great. Great advice for young T and great advice for our listeners. So thank you. So a couple final questions that I always like to ask. so the first one is, is there a book or a podcast that has recently inspired you that you’d want to share with our listeners?

T (30:48)
Yes, so there’s a a fantasy book by a writer named Ursula K. Le Guin, called The Wizard of Earth Sea. It’s actually a trilogy. but the first book is really interesting. So you while you think it’s about wizards and whatever, what’s really interesting is if you know something’s name, you have power over it. and so like names are very held very, very closely. And so one of the insights I got from that was like a lot of times we don’t name things.

about ourselves and so they have power over us, whether that’s our insecurities, our fears, our shame, our power, like any of that. And so I think like really facing yourself and being introspective and naming because I think it even as I talk about my exhalation in the mornings, you know, I think it’s really getting a hold of and naming those things within myself that are both good and bad that that allow me to then kind of

persist and push through. So I would say that’s a big insight. And then the other is that having a lot of talent is one component. But the most powerful wizards, it’s not about talent. It’s also about mastery and that they know wha how much power to use and when. And so I think often, especially, you know, like we like, you know, as a as a young talented person, I relied on my talent. But also I think it is the balance and the most power comes from

discipline and and mastery is alongside that talent. So I think those were the two like really cool insights. And it’s a really fun read, so highly recommend.

Haley Boehning (32:23)
That’s

great. That’s great. We’ll put that link in as well. can you share with us a woman in the retail world who inspires you and why?

T (32:34)
I would say that I really, I really admire Sarah Blakely. I have for a long, long time, because she she did something so brilliant with Spanx, which was it like Spanx is one of the first businesses that was truly in the business of self-esteem. And that women were able to feel amazing in whatever dress they picked out for themselves. And you know, and I feel like a lot of the lingerie businesses and a lot of the those businesses like really missed the boat. It was really built for the male gaze.

Where spanks are obviously not built for the male gaze at all, but are really built for for women. And, you know, and I admire what she’s attempting to do with shoes and that she’s putting herself out there. But I think, you know, the the story behind that is just so profound and like really like she really, really nailed something in that that I think has has not really been matched since in terms of thinking about I’m gonna come up with a product that’s not sexy but that makes women feel phenomenal about themselves. And I think

Haley Boehning (33:29)
Great. We’re

T (33:29)
that’s that’s really cool.

Haley Boehning (33:31)
that’s great. We’ll reach out to her and tell her that you said we should have her on. So that’s good.

T (33:34)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. We’ll hunt her down.

Haley Boehning (33:37)
That’s great. And so and my final question for you is when you need to hype yourself up, what song do you play?

T (33:46)
So I actually have a playlist that I that I made that’s called Wolves Do Not Concern themselves with the opinions of sheep and so it’s got a broad broad ranging sc scope of numbers from like rap music to Broadway boosts to all kinds of stuff. so it’s a ’cause I have a very eclectic taste in in music. so yeah, but I have a have a whole playlist to to go with but not just a not a single number.

Haley Boehning (34:12)
That’s great. I’ll I’ll

I’ll ask for a link to that on Spotify for when I need it.

T (34:15)
Okay, okay, absolutely. I got you. Yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s it’s great.

Haley Boehning (34:20)
That’s great. Awesome.

so T, thank you so much for joining us. This it’s I

T (34:24)
Thanks for having me. This was really fun.

Haley Boehning (34:26)
I you know I could talk to you for hours and I’m looking forward to catching up with legendary hoes in your writing and and seeing what you do next. it’s always a delight.

T (34:37)
Thank you, Haley.