Shelley E. Kohan (00:54)
Marcy, I’m so excited to have you with me today on Lead Like Her. So thank you so much for giving us the time and welcome.

Marcy (01:03)
Thank you, I’m thrilled to be here.

Shelley E. Kohan (01:06)
So, I mean, you’ve worked at some highly recognized companies, Lane Bryant, L Brands, Saks Fifth Avenue, Ann Taylor, Lenscrafters. So can you tell us a little bit about your journey and maybe early in your career, can you talk a little bit about how it was being a young woman and what I would consider to be kind of a male dominated environment? How did you get your seat at the table?

Marcy (01:34)
Sure. I started out in the executive training program at Saks Fifth Avenue and out of that program, I became an assistant buyer in fine jewelry. My first boss was brilliant, a very smart, strong woman, but a little difficult personality. And ⁓ she was not a great trainer, to be honest. So it was a challenge because

⁓ She would tell me something I needed to do, but not necessarily teach me how to do it. And then when I didn’t do it to her standards, she told me I was stupid, which was tricky at your first position. But I was so determined to be successful and figure out how to make things work that I ⁓ figured out and learned some great lessons from that first role. And that was how to ask other people for help.

how to not take criticism personally, and then how to add value maybe in a different way than adjust your job role. And so how I added value really was one of the first projects, and this will tell you how old I am. ⁓ When I first got to Saks, we still tracked our sales and inventory and opened a buy on a ledger. We didn’t even have computers when I first got there.

Now I had taken a business class in school and had learned how to use Excel. And about a year in, they said, we are automating these reports and we need you to also put these applications into Excel. Now I was the youngest person in the office and in the whole division actually. And so no one had any computer training. So at that time I volunteered to not only cover my department,

but really the whole area and the whole division. And I had a little help from my dad who was an accountant and loved computers. And I ended up automating our office and the whole division. And our division was the first to complete the project. And so my boss, Ms. Mooney, was always wanting to be the best and the first.

So she was thrilled by that. And that’s how I earned her trust and respect. And then she started talking about me to the divisional merchandise manager, the general merchandise manager and singing my praises. So that was my way in. And then I got the training obviously that I needed through her. But again, great lesson of…

It’s not necessarily about male, female getting your plate or at the table or place at the table. It was more about earning respect and doing a great job. ⁓ And then, so after that, I went to designer sportswear. I was there for the launch of DKNY. That was an exciting area. But also I was curious about specialty stores. So this was back in the late eighties.

and I had learned I’d spent three years at Saks and I decided I wanted to learn about specialty stores. I didn’t really know how to go about the process of interviewing at another company, ⁓ but this is typical me. I just ⁓ did my research, decided I wanted to work for Ann Taylor.

I called up the HR department and said, hi, I’m an assistant buyer at Saks Fifth Avenue, but I admire your brand. I think you’re the wave of the future and I’d like to come down for an interview. And they said, okay, come on down tomorrow at lunch, which I did. And then the day after I had a job offer. So sometimes getting a seat at the table is about just asking for it. And sometimes as women we’re afraid to ask for what we want.

And I would say, always ask for what you want.

Shelley E. Kohan (05:43)
I, yeah, well, first of all, let me just say, I totally remember about the ledgers because while you were doing that, I was down at Bloomingdale’s and I worked for a buyer. I was a buyer’s assistant, like a buyer’s clerical, and I did all the work that you’re saying because we didn’t have computers. So I get that whole thing. But what’s interesting is that you kind of found a niche and that niche, that understanding how to

Marcy (05:50)
Okay.

Shelley E. Kohan (06:07)
you know, turn it into an automated process that really gained you a lot of credibility, which then opened up a lot of doors, right?

Marcy (06:15)
Exactly. I believe that by doing one additional project and beyond what your expertise is, that that opens a whole new door of opportunity and ultimately can lead to promotion.

Shelley E. Kohan (06:32)
So then you went to ⁓ Ann Taylor, you probably were highly successful there, loved it, but then you never went back to department stores, so you kind of stayed in specialty store, which is really interesting. Can you tell me a little bit about what guided your decisions about why you felt specialty was the great role for you?

Marcy (06:35)
Yes.

Yeah, well, first of all, I loved specialty when I got involved because at department stores, a lot of what the skill set was, was getting to know the customer, of course, but it was about negotiating gross margin guarantees more than it was about getting the right product for the customer. And so when I joined a specialty store, it was all about getting to know the customer and then actually developing an assortment.

customized to her, but anticipating what she might want now and what she might want next. And so you’re more involved in the whole process so that merchants come up with the line plan, then that gets passed to design, but you partner with design to create what the line actually is.

We were, I was again, early in the industry before there were even planners. So then once you saw it planning, how much you would create ⁓ and then what stores to allocate it to and how much. So it was so comprehensive and so customer centric that I really just fell in love with it.

Shelley E. Kohan (07:47)
right.

That’s great. Okay, so now I’m gonna ask you, can you share a time, you have so much rich experience and I know you did a tremendous job at Lane Bryant. I mean, you’re kind of well known for the turnaround that you did at that company. But can you share an example of a time when you had to lead an organization through a significant change or disruption?

Marcy (08:22)
Sure. I think I will use the Lane Bryant example because it really was the most challenging time. So I was the chief merchandising officer at Lane Bryant when the pandemic hit and we closed our stores. Our parent company went into bankruptcy and I got a call from the CEO of the parent company and he said, Marcy, we’re doing some restructuring in bankruptcy.

And I said, okay. He said, at Lane Bryant and in Columbus, we are eliminating the roles of ⁓ president, chief financial officer, chief marketing officer, and head of stores. And now you are the most senior person on the ground in Columbus, and we need you to lead the brand and lead the turnaround. And ⁓ it was shocking.

⁓ And I went through a range of emotions during that phone call. At first, I was sad and upset for my colleagues who had lost their jobs. Then I went to a place of, ⁓ this is kind of exciting. I have the chance to make a difference and lead the company. And then I went to, my goodness, I’m overwhelmed because first of all, what’s going on in the world. And second of all, this is on me now. ⁓ But, and I realized,

in that moment that I needed to manage my own stress in order to manage other people’s stress. So I actually made some changes to behavior. And that’s when I started walking every morning to breathe in the fresh air, to appreciate the beauty of nature, to just get my energy going. And also ⁓ I started listening to podcasts for the first time. And the first podcast I listened to

was the happiness lab by Dr. Laurie Santos. And that’s about the sort of science and psychology of happiness. And so I just wanted to keep my balance and keep myself happy in order to be able to lead the team. So then the next step I took was ⁓ to pull together a reconstituted leadership team.

It became apparent to me that although I had the support of our parent company and there was a structure up above me to help, they were based in New York and they were focused on multiple businesses. And I just knew that they weren’t on the ground and weren’t going to be the ones who could help to implement the turnaround. So I pulled together the next level talent for the positions that had been eliminated and said, Hey, you’re now on the leadership team.

And ⁓ I was very transparent with this group and I said, look, ⁓ this brand is not going down on my watch and ⁓ we need to do this together. And ⁓ I really respect and appreciate your talent, your passion, your commitment to our customer, and we’re gonna figure out how to do this together. And everybody got on board really swiftly and said, okay, let’s do it.

⁓ And so we then cascaded to the organization, how we were going to operate, and we started to act to implement change because we needed to change in this new environment. And so it was really about cross-functional change across every area. We started out first with product and said, okay, we need to pivot our assortment. We’re known as a weird to work brand and no one is going to work.

So we’re gonna lean into casual, we’re gonna lean into athleisure, we’re gonna lean into sleepwear and intimate apparel, and we changed our assortment. Then the next thing we did is our stores were closed and we realized that we would be backing up in seasonal inventory in the back room. And so we said, you know what, let’s open the back rooms and use them like mini distribution centers for our e-commerce orders, which we were still getting.

And that way we won’t back up with seasonal inventory. And that was a good strategy there. Then when it was time to open stores again, everybody opened, but we didn’t open the fitting rooms because we felt like people would not feel safe. And so what we did though is we visited the stores when we opened them and immediately we got feedback from the customer that said, look, the reason why we’re coming to stores is we want to try clothes on.

Shelley E. Kohan (12:47)
Yeah, right.

Marcy (13:03)
and we just wanna feel safe doing it. Our size has changed during the pandemic and we also appreciate not only the style support that your associates give us, but also some emotional support and that was interesting and unexpected. So we figured out how to do that safely and we were among the first to open our fitting rooms.

Shelley E. Kohan (13:09)
⁓

Marcy (13:25)
And we came up with a strategy to let people try on the clothes and then anything they didn’t want, we brought to the back room, we disinfected, we let it sit for 24 hours, and then we brought it back out to the floor. So it was complex, but it was worth it because we really won the heart of our customer in responding to them and what they needed. so, you know, across everything, we diversified our sourcing base.

Shelley E. Kohan (13:38)
⁓

Marcy (13:52)
We started to do some HR tactics to help people feel connected while we were working from home. And we started a peer-to-peer recognition program where you could celebrate a peer who had helped you with something. And we just took action and the actions were customer-driven and brand-driven and they were the right ones. And so our business turned around.

And in 2021, we ended up having our most profitable year in the history of the business in 110 years. We also had new ownership at that time and they were also supportive. So their actions helped as well. But ⁓ I think of this leadership team as my ride or die team. And ⁓ I’m very proud of what we accomplished together.

Shelley E. Kohan (14:31)
to read.

Marcy (14:47)
And then the new ownership recognized that as well. And that’s when I was promoted to president.

Shelley E. Kohan (14:53)
I love that story. So my favorite part about that whole story is that when you took on this tremendous leadership role, mean, you got thrown a lot of different functions at you that you now were responsible for, is you took care of yourself first. And I think that’s great. I think that was a great, great strategy because knowing you have to be in the right mindset to be able to lead a very significant and difficult turnaround.

Marcy (15:07)
Yeah

It’s essential and I think it’s a step that sometimes we go fast and we forget that we need to make sure that we take care of the self first.

Shelley E. Kohan (15:28)
So I want to ask you, so I know you talked about walking in the morning and that gives you a lot of energy, but can you talk a little bit about what other strategies do you have to maintain your well-being and avoid this kind of burnout that we have in our industry? We try to do it all.

Marcy (15:43)
Yeah, we

do. We absolutely do. First of all, I always believe it takes a village and it takes a team. And that is true both in the workplace, but also at home. And I’ve been very lucky that I have a husband who is a 50-50 partner to me, but it doesn’t have to be a husband. It can be a partner. It can be a parent who’s available to help you out. It can be a sitter.

⁓ But my husband has really been a great supporter of mine and he recognizes that my career is as important to me as his is to him. So we came up with some clever rules and strategies to be able to manage life and work. And so I’ll share a couple of them with you. One was around dinner with the family. So I have two kids and when we moved to Columbus, they were one and three.

Shelley E. Kohan (16:30)
Please.

Marcy (16:38)
And we kind of made a rule that we would always have dinner together as a family at 7.30 at night. And when we came here to Columbus, my husband’s job, he would get out of the office at six o’clock and I often would not get out of the office until 7.15 or later. And so we made a rule that whoever gets home first is the one to cook. And it turned out that he got home first 95 % of the time.

Shelley E. Kohan (17:05)
Yeah.

Marcy (17:07)
And so he cooked all that time. And I don’t think that was what he imagined when he married me, but I’m so grateful for his agility throughout life. The other thing is we’re big believers in, in addition to work and caring for your family, that you have to keep up other passions as well. And one of our passions that we both shared is going to movies in a movie theater. We have always loved that.

And so we came up with a clever little scheme, which was on a Saturday, he would go to a movie at two o’clock and I would hang out with the kids. And then we would meet for dinner at the mall at five o’clock with the kids and have dinner all together. And then he would go home with the kids and I would go to the same movie at seven o’clock and then get home at 10 o’clock and we could discuss the movie.

So we always had little things that helped us manage through, have full lives and create balance for us.

Shelley E. Kohan (18:13)
love that. That’s such a great idea. So when you think about our industry, ⁓ what would you like to see differently across our industry in terms of female leadership in the years to come?

Marcy (18:27)
Well, first of all, I’d love us to, as an industry, focus on ⁓ recruiting, retaining, promoting, and paying women equitably and fairly. First and foremost, something I know we’ve all been fighting for for a long time. I also believe we should invest in leadership development. ⁓ And not every company does that. I’ve been fortunate.

to be in companies that did support leadership development. And not because they think you are a bad leader, but because they think you have potential to be a future leader of the company. ⁓ And then the third thing I also believe strongly in is the idea of mentorship and sponsorship, both by women and men, for women. And I think making sure that companies

spend time and focus and implement that as well.

Shelley E. Kohan (19:24)
I love that. So have you had any mentors or role models who influenced your leadership journey and how did they really impact your leadership, your approach to leadership?

Marcy (19:35)
Yeah, I would say that the majority of my learning has actually come through observation, ⁓ observing what I want to duplicate and what I do not. ⁓ But also, I…

Shelley E. Kohan (19:48)
like that

first boss at Saks.

Marcy (19:51)
Right,

exactly, exactly. ⁓ But I’m also a person who learns by doing. That’s like my learning style. And so my greatest mentors, and there have been many, have been mentors who’ve given me opportunities and then coached me through. And so taking that kind of risk with someone who’s new or green but passionate.

⁓ And ⁓ allowing me to do something, that’s been the greatest mentor that I’ve had. And then also mentors who have supported the idea of leadership training and sponsorship and have paved the way to make that happen or who have taken it seriously, their role as mentor or sponsor.

Shelley E. Kohan (20:40)
No, that’s great.

So as you know, our mission in doing this podcast is really to provide inspiration for future female leaders, but also to help any existing leaders that are out there today in the industry. We want all women to succeed. And you’ve actually done a lot to support leaders. So I’m just going to call out a few things that you’ve done. You founded the Columbus Arm of Wonder Woman Dinners in 2022. And then in 2024, Columbus Monthly Magazine recognized you as one of the 20 trailblazing women.

And again, in 2024, you were selected as a mentor and coach for emergency executive talent at Deloitte’s Wise Women program. So when you look back at this recognition, you know, what are you most proud of?

Marcy (21:27)
Well, ⁓ I would tell you, know, my goal when starting out my career was to run a successful business and drive growth. But over the course of the career, I developed a personal passion about supporting, promoting, developing women.

And it was sort of an internal thing that I just believed I could do. My mom was a working mom and she was a pioneer. And I just thought, ⁓ I want to adopt what she’s done in her career to what I’ve done in my career. I really never expected any recognition at all for that. It was just what I believed my purpose was. And so to achieve any recognition,

was so delightful and unexpected. ⁓ And I know that I would be, my mother is no longer with us, but that I would make her very, very proud.

Shelley E. Kohan (22:24)
That’s so nice. I love that. ⁓ So when you think about female leaders, what do you think holds female leaders back? And what can we do to pave the road forward for young women and students who are embarking on the leadership path?

Marcy (22:40)
Yeah, I think the biggest thing that ⁓ holds women back and this has been studied is the belief that we have to have the perfect experience in order to go for opportunities. And we almost hold ourselves back and don’t even apply for things that we think are, you know, we might not be qualified for. And because you asked about students, I’ll just give you an example of me even applying for the executive training program at SACS.

⁓ I was a psychology major with a theater background and worked in catering. And my school only had one business course and no retail courses. So those were not options for me. And I wasn’t sure what I was going to do, but there was a job fair on my campus. And at that job fair, I was reading the job descriptions and the executive training program came up.

And I realized that the things that they talked about there applied to what I had done, but in a different way. So psychology, again, is about, know, for in retail, you want to know what the customer is going to want now and figure out what she’s going to want next. And then in theater, ⁓ it’s the stores like a stage. And so on my interviews, I talked about how

the stores, the set, and how the actors are like the people who work in the store, and how the home office is like the director behind the scenes trying to convey the brand story. And then talking about catering, I was a staffing coordinator for this catering service. And so I managed 10 events or 100 workers weekly.

And so there was the operational side. So even though I had no retail and no business formal training or experience, I connected my uniqueness to what I thought the job role was. And that allowed me to get many job offers and to have a choice of what to choose.

So I recommend to students a lot of times to think about not only it’s great if you have business and retail background, but also in an interview, try to highlight that unique thing and a unique connection that maybe not someone wouldn’t ordinarily make. ⁓ And then another thing ⁓ I believe for women is that you can sort of make opportunities for yourself.

And so when I was at Ann Taylor and still pretty young in my career, I was passionate about the idea of Petites, that Ann Taylor, the concept of Ann Taylor was tailored clothing for women, but we neither offered tailoring in stores nor did we offer any special sizes. So I said to my boss and the CEO at the time, look, I think it’s a big business opportunity for Ann Taylor. need to develop.

Shelley E. Kohan (25:29)
You

Marcy (25:40)
Now it also happens I’m five foot two and I was frustrated that I had to add 50 to a hundred dollars onto everything I bought in order to have it fit me. And at the time that CEO said to me, look, it’s a big inventory investment. Why don’t we just add size zeros? And I said, yes, we can add size zeros, but that doesn’t solve this problem, but we can do that as a first step. And that’s what we did.

Shelley E. Kohan (26:05)
It does it.

Marcy (26:09)
Then a new CEO came in probably a year later and she asked the merchant team, are ideas that you wanted to implement for growth that you haven’t implemented yet? And I immediately raised my hand and talked about Petits and how much of the US population had Petits and having sold Petits at Saks Fifth Avenue as part of my training program, I saw how loyal and appreciative that customer was.

And she gathered a bunch of ideas and said, I’ll think about it. A year later, I heard that she was seriously thinking about Petits, and I approached the DMM and the GMM and said, I want to be the one to do it. Now, mind you, I never had any formal experience about Petits, but I just knew that I could do it. And they said, OK, yes, ⁓ go for it.

Shelley E. Kohan (26:53)
Ha ha ha.

Wow.

Marcy (27:05)
And then I, you know, of course, then I go to myself, how do I do it? But they coached me through and said, okay, let’s make a five year plan. Let’s have a test and learn strategy. Let’s make sure we get the fit right. You have to hire a great fit model. ⁓ And, you know, they helped me go through the steps of what it would take, but allowed me to do it. And ⁓ so ⁓ to, you know, again, it’s about this sort of seat at the table, like volunteer and,

Shelley E. Kohan (27:19)
Hmm.

Marcy (27:35)
⁓ If you’re passionate about something, you’ll make it happen. You don’t have to be perfect to be able to get something done.

Shelley E. Kohan (27:43)
love that part of your story and I think my favorite kind of lesson for students and young women executives is that we’re always trying to take a square peg and put it in a square hole. And I can’t believe you had the insight at such a young age back in college to say, wow, I have, you know, a drama background and I have, you know, an English major and I have all these things, but that’s exactly what I’ll be doing. So good for you for kind of figuring out that it’s not about having the precise

exact credentials to fit into the jobs, and passion’s the other thing. You’re so passionate about some of the businesses that you’ve run, and I think that really helps a ⁓ successful path to leadership is being passionate about what you’re doing. So thank you for those stories.

Marcy (28:29)
Absolutely. You’re

welcome. Yeah, passionate about the customer and passionate about the brand has always been part of why I end up where I end up.

Shelley E. Kohan (28:40)
It’s great. So okay, now comes my favorite part of the interview where I it’s called my rapid fire questions. And I’m just gonna like throw these questions out you and you’re just gonna answer them boom, boom, boom. Okay. Are you ready? Okay, what one piece of advice would you give to female leaders that are currently working?

Marcy (28:52)
Got it. Bring it.

I would say, one, ask for what you want, and two, make opportunities and take opportunities.

Shelley E. Kohan (29:13)
Love it. What three tips would you give students, our emerging leaders?

Marcy (29:20)
Yeah, so I’ll reinforce some of the things that I said earlier. So first tip is to connect your own uniqueness ⁓ and background to whatever the job role is that you are pursuing while you’re interviewing. I would say also ⁓ when you join a company, your first focus is to focus on the role at hand and get mastery of that role.

But if you can also do one other thing to contribute to the company or the culture in another way, shows your ⁓ broadness of scope. It shows your willingness to support the company. And then, the third thing, let me think. The third thing I would say is, here’s one. If you’re at a company and there’s something that’s bugging you and you’re thinking about complaining about it,

then that is the route for something you can affect change with. And I’ll give a quick example, even though I know this is the speed round. ⁓ Both when I was at Ann Taylor and when I was at Victoria’s Secret, there was a fair amount of turnover in the assistant and associate merchant team, either through promotion or through departing.

Shelley E. Kohan (30:25)
No.

Marcy (30:40)
And so I found myself constantly retraining and I started to kind of create some tools for myself. But I then went to the HR department and said, hey, it would be really helpful if we had a merchant training manual. Can you do this? And they were like, well, we have some other priorities right now. And so then I said to myself, well, what if I do it and you review it?

and perfect it and then we implement it. And they said, yes, let’s do it. So at both of those companies, I added value by doing that extra thing that I was kind of grumpy about, but ended up providing a solution for.

Shelley E. Kohan (31:08)
Love it.

I love that. Okay, so what’s your legacy? What do you want to leave behind for the next generation?

Marcy (31:29)
Hmm. There’s a quote I love from Maya Angelou that is, ⁓ I want to be known as an intelligent woman, a courageous woman, a loving woman, and a woman who teaches by being. And I think that that is the legacy I would love to leave.

Shelley E. Kohan (31:52)
Beautiful. Okay, your last question is and this could be a fun one. It could be anything. What is your secret power?

Marcy (32:01)
I think my secret power is a combination of natural curiosity and then confidence that I can figure stuff out even if I’ve never done it before. I think that has been consistent throughout my life and career.

Shelley E. Kohan (32:20)
Love it. Thank you. my gosh. And thank you so much for spending so much time with us. I know our audience learned so much. Our students are emerging leaders. So thank you. And we appreciate your time.

Marcy (32:34)
Thank you. And I am a fan of this podcast. And so keep up the great work. And also I’d say let’s together keep sort of chipping away at that glass ceiling and reaching out to bring others along with us.

Shelley E. Kohan (32:48)
100%. Thank you.

Marcy (32:52)
Thank you.