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 Hello, I’m Shelly Kohan. I’m very excited to introduce our guest today on our leadership broadcast, Denise Incandela. She’s a visionary retail executive and a very experienced public board member and director who has grown and transformed luxury brands and mass retailers for over 20 years. Currently, Denise is the Executive Vice President of Walmart Fashion for Walmart U.S.

Her past roles include Ralph Lauren, Saks Fifth Avenue, and she was previously the CEO of Aerosols. Denise’s ultimate leadership goal is really to help teams accomplish what they didn’t think was possible, and changing the world in meaningful ways. Her secret power? She’s able to get people to embrace transformation and accomplish things beyond what they thought they could achieve.

A true leader in the field, Denise continues to shape the future of retail through her unparalleled expertise and relentless dedication and commitment to excellence. Let’s get started. I’m very excited to have Denise here with us today. And so I want to start off with my first question, which is what’s the most valuable lesson you have learned as a leader that you’d like to share with aspiring female leaders?

Shelley, oh my goodness. There are so many valuable lessons that I’ve learned over the years, but I think the most valuable lesson, um, is the need to build and invest. In relationships across the organization and when you and I work together, Shelly, that’s at SACS. That’s where I learned it because you cannot be successful without the people around you supporting your success, no matter how hard you work.

And I think at that time I was so young in my career that I thought I could just outwork and work 16 hours a day and get things done. And the reality is that, um, you can’t be successful without the support, uh, throughout the organization. And you’re only as good as your partners and your teams enable you to be.

And so, um, that was, I’ll give you a couple of examples. I mean, 1. Um, you need to take an enterprise view, like, people need to think that you’re not just out for yourself. But you need to, um, And your own area, but you need to be vested in others and what they’re trying to accomplish. And you need to very effectively explain what you’re trying to do for the company, not just for you, right?

For the company. And that’s where the enterprise view goes such a long way. And I would say for, you know, an example within Walmart is I say only 20 percent of our strategy is driven from the people who report into me. Vast 80 percent of our strategy, whether it’s changing the store experience or changing our online experience or, um, reaching customers in new ways is through others and influencing others.

So I would say that’s my number one and learning, and I was not good at it in the beginning. I would say, Shelly, when you and I worked together, that was, that was not my strength, but over the years I’ve learned that you can’t be successful alone. And I’ll, and I’ll throw in 2 other quick ones 1, especially for women over deliver and build strong relationships with your boss, because at some point, they will be potential mentors and advocates for you.

And that’ll be critical as you navigate your career, and especially critical for women, because they don’t tend to have as, you know. Seek out mentors as much as men do. And the third is just be nice to everyone. Because you never know who’s going to be in that room when they have a talent review. And you never know who gave input into that talent review.

Whether it was the assistant to someone who said I heard XYZ, or whether it was someone you, um, had a casual working relationship with. Be nice to everyone because it all counts. Wow. Thank you for that. I think you and I have a different view on your early years because I think you are just phenomenal.

So, uh, that’s interesting. And I’m going to actually ask you a specific question on something I really valued about you in a minute. But before we move on to that, just why do you think more women are not successful in getting into those, you know, C suite roles and what, what’s holding females back from these top leadership roles?

Yeah. I have so many thoughts on that. Um, one, I would say there’s a lack of women CEOs as role models. And so when women look around them, they’re looking for people that look like them and that it can be attained and they’re not there. That doesn’t prevent it from happening. But that’s, that’s a starting friction point.

And two, and And these, these first two, they’re really easy to get beyond. But I do think that they’re from an aspiration point of view, there’s a greater societal opportunity for women to opt out when things get tough than men. Right. And every career has peaks and valleys. Every career has times when things go really well.

And every career has times when you’re devastated. And I’ve had lots of times where I’ve devastated been devastated. And I think that women have more of an opt out cord. And so they don’t necessarily always stick through it. And that the one piece of advice that I would say is so incredibly gratifying is that when you stick through it, it gets, it’s such an incredible, um, fulfilling, uh, career path.

Um, because we all know that there’s. Peaks and valleys. I would say the third is just a lack of confidence. And, um, women typically don’t ask for, and this is on average, but women typically don’t ask for promotions as assertively as men do. Women tend to underestimate their skills and this is all proven out by research, uh, versus men who tend to overestimate.

And so, um, because they don’t seek out and, and secure, you know, those promotions that, um, has an impact. And then I would say what I talked to earlier in terms of mentors and advocates, which are so incredibly critical to your success. That women typically don’t seek those out as well. So I, you know, it’s so gratifying to have a fulfilling career with the peaks and valleys, with this, with, with the times when you’re devastated and you don’t want to go to work because you feel like your whole world has been blown up to the times where you feel like you’re, wow, I’m really accomplishing something that is great.

And I think it’s incumbent on all of us to make sure that women are around the table that are around the table are heard. That we are continually asking women to lead early and often knowing that they don’t necessarily, um, throw their hat in the ring. Um, and we know that they’re likely to believe that they think they’re less qualified.

So push them and then just work to overcome that unconscious bias that exists in the workplace. Because I still think today, Shelly, and I remember those days when I was ignored at McKinsey. And I was the senior person in the room. And yet the CEO, who was a man, talked to the men on my team that reported into me and didn’t talk to me.

And it’s just, times have gotten better than that, but there’s still a lot of unconscious bias. And so like all of us being mindful about that as well. So lots of opportunity. And I would just say, you know, seek out leadership roles because that’s how you can get ahead. That’s great advice. And, uh, so I had the distinct pleasure of working with you at Saks Fifth Avenue.

You were president of EECOM. I was VP of operations. And I remember distinctly watching you in these huge cross functional meetings. And this is 1 specific characteristic. I really admired about you. You would sit there and you would listen to all voices at the table and you would truly like, really try to understand each person’s perspective.

Meanwhile, I knew you were literally the smartest person in the room and, and you would just sit there quiet and you’d listen to everyone. Where did you learn this characteristic? And has this served you well in your career, Shelley? That is so nice of you to say. I think that, um. We’re always so tough on ourselves.

So it’s, I always think that I can be a better listener. So it’s nice to hear that that was an observation. I tend to be very passionate as a lot of people do. So I have to really work at making sure, um, that we are listening. But the reality is I, the role of the leader is not. The I believe the role of the leader is not to tell everybody what to do.

The role of the leader is to be the orchestra conductor and, um, hear all the different views because the reality is one person can’t know everything and, um, the people on your team are the experts on what they do. And so to me, your role is to create an environment. Where your team can speak to what they think the opportunities are the challenges and put forth their own recommendations and I feel like good leaders facilitate a vibrant discussion and create an environment where everyone feels like they have a voice and in the end.

You know, if you have a decision needs to be made because it’s unclear than the than the leader needs to do that. But if you’re not encouraging everyone to speak up and share their thoughts, you’re never going to get to that right answer. So I think of I think of the leader more of a conductor than a, you know, this is what we’re going to do.

I love that analogy. Um, what’s your secret sauce for motivating others to put forth their greatest efforts? Well, I don’t think I have a secret sauce for anything, but I will say that I’m constantly trying and I think of the role of a leader. Um, I think the role of the leaders for things one laying out a clear vision and purpose and everybody wants to, um, get inspired by the purpose of what you’re doing.

And so a big part of the motivation. Is showing the purpose of doing greater things. And certainly I, I felt that way in every role that I’ve had that in our small way, we were changing the world. And how exciting is that? And so laying out that purpose for either. Um, at Saks, when you and I worked together, it was bringing luxury apparel on, online, and it never existed before, and this is the wave of how people were going to shop in the future, and no one believed it, Shelly, because at that point, it was books and electronics, or at Walmart.

Well, you know, democratizing fashion and, you know, enabling people to save money and live better, I really passionately believed in the purpose of every role that I’ve taken and sought out transformational opportunities. And that’s really easy to sell. I think, because I believe so passionately in it. And then the so that’s the 1st part.

The 2nd is creating a culture of empowerment and customer obsession and accountability and risk taking and the relentless pursuit to win. And I think when people are empowered, they get very motivated. Um, and then the 3rd is, like, my job is to remove the road blocks and have my teams back and make sure that I act with integrity.

And I think if you can provide that to a team. They will jump through the highest, the highest hoops for you, and I have had the great privilege of people following me from Saks to Ralph to here, and, um, and it’s because, uh, we get excited to do great things together, and we, it’s hard. And, um, I would say some of the people on my team have told me that, uh, I’ve really pushed them beyond what they thought their limits were, but they are so gratified to see, um, what they were able to accomplish in retrospect.

That’s great. Um, I’m going to move into what I call rapid fire questions. These are, I’m just going to boom, boom, boom, ask you and you just give me, you know, what comes to top of mind. Okay. You ready? I am ready. What one piece of advice would you give to female leaders that are currently working? Yeah, build your advocates and mentorships.

I can’t over, under, uh, I can’t overestimate the value of having people advocating for you and what you’re doing. Great. What three tips would you give students, our emerging leaders? Work hard. Every person that I know is extraordinarily successful worked hard. That’s just, that’s the common denominator over everyone.

Um, over deliver to expectations. Be kind to everyone and check your ego at the door. Don’t confuse entitlement with confidence. Do what’s asked with a smile on your face and anticipate what’s not asked. And then eventually people will see how amazing you are. And I just was giving this advice to my daughter who has her first job this summer.

And she was, um, you know, her ego was getting in the way and I’m like, no, no, no, no. That is the recipe for disaster. Attitude is everything. People will see how amazing you are if you’re working hard and you have a great attitude. That’s excellent advice. Um, what do you want to leave behind for the next generation?

What do you want your legacy to be? Helping teams accomplish what they didn’t think they could accomplish. Changing the world in our small way and making them feel, um, passionate about what they do. And, um, I think that, um, helping people find their purpose in work is so gratifying and fulfillment at, you know, and as I said, at Walmart, we’re working to.

Help people save money and live better. And we do this in fashion by democratizing fashion, allowing everyone to have access to beautiful clothes and that’s motivating. And so bringing people in who have worked at Ralph Lauren or the gap or J crew. And who have supported the top 1 percent of the population for so long, but now doing the same things for the 99 percent of the population, um, is really motivating and, um, we are all working to accomplish things that we didn’t think we could accomplish.

And I. To me, that’s really gratifying when people, uh, look at what we’ve been able to do and are amazed by it. That’s great. Okay, one last question, and this can be fun, it can be anything, it can be personal, it can be work, whatever. Here it is, ready? What is your secret power? Um, my secret power? Let’s see.

Um, I don’t I think I have a secret power other than, um, getting, um, getting people to embrace transformation and get passionate about transformation and, um, and to, uh, accomplish things beyond what they thought they could accomplish. That, that is what I enjoy doing. I don’t know that that’s a secret power, Shelly, because, uh, but that is what, that is what I work to do as a leader.

And that I and I personally feel that the teams that I’ve worked with have done extraordinary things. So I hope that I’ve been able to contribute to that. I’ll leave it at that. That is an awesome secret power and you are phenomenal at that. So excellent. Are there any closing thoughts that you’d like to share?

Yeah, I mean, I would say that overall I have my journey has gone from finance to management consulting to retail. So I’ve worked in three completely different industries and you never know where your life and your passions are going to take you. And not all the jobs I’ve loved. But in each one, I’ve learned and grown and for me, I didn’t figure out which industry or what my job was going, you know, the job that I really enjoyed doing until I was in my thirties, maybe even my late thirties.

And so don’t put your pressure on yourself to figure it all out early. It, for me, it was about chasing transformational opportunities and. Wanting to work for great companies where I believed in the purpose, and I can’t underscore this enough, like believing in the purposes is important to me. I like the people.

I thought they were high integrity, which for me was very important as well. And I thought I could add value and grow. So I would just urge people to, um, Not put pressure on themselves to figure it all out early, but more seek each opportunity knowing that each one is a different path to the long road.

You know, it’s a, it’s a long security path. That’s great, Denise. Thank you so much. I so appreciate your time. I know you’re on a very tight time schedule and I really appreciate you making time and making this happen. You’re the students are going to love hearing about your journey and I love the fact that you talked about.

Yeah, we all have valleys valleys because I think students think it’s all, you know, it’s all mountains for a lot of people and it’s not right. Yeah, I’ve been crushed just as many times as I’ve been happy. And that’s okay because all that is part of the learning experience. And you learn a lot more from the failures, as you know.

And everyone says this, than from the successes. So I value them just as much. Well, thank you so much. And, uh, I look forward to seeing you at some point in the future. And if you need anything from me, please reach out. Thank you, Shelley. It was so wonderful to see you. I appreciate you so much.