Shelley E. Kohan (00:01.992)
Very excited to welcome Kimberly Minor. I’m so excited to have you on Lead Like Her. So welcome.

Kimberly Lee Minor (00:08.631)
Thank you. Thank you. It’s always good to talk to you, Shelly. I was sharing this morning that I was going to do this podcast with some people and they were like, that’s awesome. Did we introduce you to Shelly? I was like, I don’t think so. She’s just fabulous. I love our conversations.

Shelley E. Kohan (00:11.68)
And

Shelley E. Kohan (00:26.144)
I love it. remember when I met you and you’ll find this funny. One of the first things when I met you, I was like, my God, she’s so fashionable. Like you are like the epitome of a fashion plate out there. So, and then you’re just so smart and I’m looking at all this stuff you’re doing. And I think you have an important story to share for the future leaders of our industry. So I’m excited to jump in and start talking about how you did it.

Kimberly Lee Minor (00:40.611)
my goodness.

Kimberly Lee Minor (00:50.475)
I hope so.

Kimberly Lee Minor (00:55.213)
Okay, I’m here for you.

Shelley E. Kohan (00:58.016)
So let’s start with maybe talking about what are some of the significant challenges you have faced on your path to leadership and how did you overcome some of those challenges?

Kimberly Lee Minor (01:09.645)
Well, you know, I would say my first challenge honestly was not knowing exactly what I wanted to do. you know, that was a huge challenge because how I had envisioned my career and my future was just was not coming to be to be when I was about to graduate from college. And, you know, I went to get my MBA because I didn’t know what else to do, honestly. And then while I was

I had just gotten accepted. I got into Macy’s executive training program. So I was doing both at the same time. And so then the challenge became time, right? You want to be successful in what you’re doing, but then you have to figure out how am I going to do all of this? And so as you you go along and those challenges become different. you know, from time it became, okay, I’ve done this now and

what else can I do? Now the best part about my experience with Macy’s training program was the expansive training, but really having a leader who had not come from retail either. And so, yeah, I mean, we were very similar in that she had done something before that and I hadn’t done something for that had gone to school, but.

just the idea of, you know, we had never had retail merchandising classes, had never thought that this was going to be our path. And so she really, reinforced the idea of curiosity as a skill. And, I thought, wow, this is great. I get to ask all the questions and learn so much. And then from there, the challenges became,

Okay, now you are in these like new environment because from there I went to Express and Express was just like baptism by fire because you know, they recruited the best of the best from everywhere. So, you know, you’re in there and you’re like, okay, I must be good. However, right. I don’t know. It’s just like, it’s a tough environment. You know, the challenge is how do you keep your head up because you’re working 80 hours a week and

Shelley E. Kohan (03:10.537)
Yes.

Kimberly Lee Minor (03:30.462)
you know, people are coming at you fearsome, my goodness, what is this environment is very different than, and so then the challenge became, I flexible enough? Am I adaptable to be able to grow in this space? Because I knew what I knew, I didn’t know what I didn’t know. And so that challenge, I learned new skills. And then the biggest challenge I would say once I got past there, because

What wasn’t a challenge is that I picked up quickly and I was only, I guess, judged on what I delivered. I never felt like I was judged because of who I was. I never felt that that got in my way. But as I got further along in my career, it started to. And there were opportunities that

I was not considered for. And when I thought about it, or even talked to certain people about it, the thing that had gotten in my way was I was being judged, obviously, because we’re always judged, but judged and evaluated based more on my gender and my race than what I was delivering. And it was like a snowball.

that just got bigger and bigger the further up in my job I got. I started with Macy’s as a sales manager, right? Because you’re in the executive training program. But once you become a real executive and you’re a vice president, senior vice president, those stakes change. And I would say that those were the biggest challenges. I also thought that

as a woman, women would be more supportive of other women. And I was shocked by that. as I, so, know, other people, maybe other people’s insecurities and then the biases that I had to deal with the further up I got in my career.

Shelley E. Kohan (05:46.762)
So, but how did you overcome that? I mean, that’s pretty significant. How did you overcome that? How did you beat those odds and those perceptions?

Kimberly Lee Minor (05:55.733)
Well, I will tell you, know, when you I’ve done a lot of things, but I learned to hit the ground running. Always looking for and I think like this is one of my well, one of my secret sauces, but understanding. OK, you have to make an immediate impact.

And I remember when I was at David’s Bridal and it was more intuitive to make, because coming from Express, such a fast paced environment, you did that, but it wasn’t to prove who you were. It really was to improve the business. And when I went to David’s Bridal, I thought that’s what would be expected of me. And the CEO of the time, Bob Huth, he was like, no, I need you to slow down.

Like you’re in a new industry, no one needs you to hit the ground running. They just need you to be really good at what you do. And so I did that. And then, you know, I took a little piece, a little piece, a little piece. But then once I got to the place where I realized that I needed to, I needed people to know who I was. And I kind of had to prove myself. The minute I got there, I started.

I started really building that skill.

Kimberly Lee Minor (07:31.722)
it did? Okay. Okay. Sorry about that. This is new iPad. It just keeps doing stuff. but what I was saying is that, I, I, I developed the skill of being able to walk in and immediately assess where’s the white space, where, where’s the, proverbial low hanging fruit. How am I going to make an impression immediately? So they know what I bring with me.

Shelley E. Kohan (07:39.836)
it.

Kimberly Lee Minor (08:00.955)
And that usually that worked. However, I will say at one of the later jobs, largest responsibility, biggest impact really had a lot of impact built a business, delivered a multi-billion dollar results as well as improved time to market and all of those things. Because I saw here’s, okay, let me get in there. It really did feel like

I had to do that because I was fighting for my life, fighting for validity. And at that time, I, instead of getting promotions because of those contributions, I got additional projects and additional divisions and didn’t get the support I needed because I think it was, wow, if she can do this, she should be able to do this. If she can do this, she should be able to do that. And it really led to a glass cliff scenario, which

You know, when I think about overcoming it, the way I overcame that was to,

stop and go back to school, open my consulting firm and from there kind of use all my experience to create a new path for myself. And there were times where I was so frustrated, Shelly, because I thought, wow, I see my friends now the CEO of this company. I could be the CEO of that company.

But then I also thought, do you want to go through those challenges again? And those were conversations that I would have with my friends who most of them were women who were moving into these roles and they were in them for a very short amount of time because, you know, we know women don’t get the same runway as men. I just thought, I’m going to overcome this because I’m going to do it differently and I can still use my experience and my skills.

Kimberly Lee Minor (10:00.413)
but I’m going to apply them differently. And that’s also, you know, was the catalyst for the group of us who came together to create WACRA. Like we wanted to be different.

Shelley E. Kohan (10:10.9)
Yeah, which is a great. Yeah, that’s a great way to look at things. You know, that immediate impact I think is so relevant, especially when you’re younger in your career. But I love how you just kind of pivoted and really went a different path to kind of show leadership skill in a different way and really help the end. Like I think your impact on the industry is huge now. Whereas if you’re at another company and you’re another VP or CEO or whatever, your impact is just kind of limited to the company and

Now we get to have more of you, which I think is much more powerful, actually.

Kimberly Lee Minor (10:44.754)
You know, it’s funny you say that because when the opportunity, like being a group of people who found an organization is different than being tasked to lead that organization as a CEO. And when I was asked to do that, I really, I didn’t know that I could do it because it was a nonprofit is very different. And I, I wasn’t sure. And I remember having several conversations with Sandra Campos and she, yeah. And she,

Shelley E. Kohan (10:57.748)
Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (11:06.356)
Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (11:11.957)
yes, I love her.

Kimberly Lee Minor (11:14.884)
She’s fabulous because she said to me the final conversation about this she was like, you know, we’ve talked about this a lot She said if you work for one for-profit company, you’re going to influence their bottom line If you take this role as CEO of Wakra, you’re going to influence a whole industry She’s like think about that. She’s gonna have a glass of wine and come back to me

Shelley E. Kohan (11:37.522)
I love it.

Shelley E. Kohan (11:42.984)
And just so our viewers understand, WOCRA is Women of Color Retail Alliance.

Kimberly Lee Minor (11:51.911)
Yes. No, no, it’s just it’s a nonprofit focused on closing the gaps that exist for women of color in this incredible industry.

Shelley E. Kohan (11:53.992)
Okay, yeah, go ahead.

Shelley E. Kohan (12:05.278)
That’s great. So you’ve received a ton of awards in the industry. Recently, you got the Women’s Wear Daily 50 Women of Power. You were recognized as the N.R.F. Top Retail Voices. You also achieved some other awards, which I think are even more special than the industry one, and that’s the service award. So you received the Whitney Young Junior Service Award from the Boy Scouts of America.

And my favorite award name was Unstoppable 100 Trailblazer Award from the Ford Foundation and Role Model Magazine. So those are just a few that you’ve won, but when you reflect back on your career, and we’re talking over 30 years, what awards or recognition are you most proud of?

Kimberly Lee Minor (12:49.607)
Yeah.

Kimberly Lee Minor (12:55.599)
Yeah, that question is so hard, you know.

Kimberly Lee Minor (13:03.951)
A, I never expect to win an award. You know, I did pageants, got scholarships, got to college from pageants. And I never, like my award was the scholarship. But then when I would like win a talent or something, I was like, I just did my best. And I mean that. And I know it sounds, but it’s true. And so when I get these recognitions,

it really kind of blows me away. Like I have to sit back and sit in it for a while because it takes my breath away. not, you know, I’m not a person who is a pay to play person. You know, we get those, I’m sure you get them all the time where they’re reaching out to you and say, we can give you this or you can be in this publication if you pay, you know, what amount. And so when I think about what’s really, what’s stood out,

hard, but I would say,

Kimberly Lee Minor (14:09.957)
The Trailblazer Award with four foundation. That was really special because Role Model Magazine is a magazine, it’s a global magazine that’s focused on young women, 18 and younger. And with the sweet spot being between 12 and 16. And to be able to influence the next generation just by

Being myself and doing what I think is important, that means so much, that it really means a lot. And then recently, like last week I think it was, I was named one of Columbus Business First Women of Influence. And what made that really special is just like these others, I had no idea.

no one came to me and said, you’re being nominated. They just said, hey, this is happening. And what made that extra, extra special is that it was for nonprofit leadership specifically. So that meant that making that change, doing something very different is impacting people differently. And then on top of that, both my boys were able to be there and to, you know, say that’s my mom, you know, and that, that does.

Shelley E. Kohan (15:31.755)
Shelley E. Kohan (15:36.34)
That’s.

Kimberly Lee Minor (15:37.957)
I’m still smiling.

Shelley E. Kohan (15:40.67)
I love that. old are your boys?

Kimberly Lee Minor (15:42.821)
23 and 20.

Shelley E. Kohan (15:45.372)
Awesome, my gosh, that’s great. So let’s talk a little bit about employee culture for a second. you you are very, very good at getting a diverse perspective. So when you look back on your career, what steps did you take to make sure that you heard all the voices and how did you integrate these diverse perspectives into your decision-making processes?

Kimberly Lee Minor (16:09.519)
Yeah, so, you know, as a person of color, I have always, I’ve always been the first or the only one. So just a little background, the neighborhood I grew up in, my family’s first black family in that neighborhood for 12 years. When I went to school, because of whatever reason, test scores, I was the only black person.

in my classes. I come from an interracial family. have white cousins, Puerto Rican, like we’re just, we’re that family. And so I’ve been in that situation my whole life. And so I’ve always had to be the person to understand the other people.

because it’s not like I’ve had a bunch of people who look like me or shared experiences or anything like that. And so from the beginning, mean, you know, and diversity in so many different ways, Shelley, when I was injured when I was in second grade, but my mom and dad were always about, have to have extracurricular activities. And I had danced and I was very active, but I had injured myself and I couldn’t dance that year. And so I was able to,

try out, I guess is the word or apply to go to art school because I was interested in painting. But you had to be 12 years old. I was in second grade and my mom talked to them and she said, look, if she can take the test and do as well as the 12th grade, can she get in the 12 year olds? And they were like, well, I guess we can’t stop that if she can do it. And so I did it. So now I’m dealing with age.

Shelley E. Kohan (17:42.336)
Kimberly Lee Minor (18:03.973)
You know, they’re 12 to 18 and I’m seven, right? Like, so I understood how to deal with like different ages. It’s just, that has been my path. And I think because it’s so innately who I am, because it’s who I had to be. I didn’t have a choice. It was nothing I thought about. Like I’m the only one. I need to figure out how everybody else works and listen.

Shelley E. Kohan (18:05.241)
Kimberly Lee Minor (18:31.3)
and still be who I am. And that was really important to my mother. Like you don’t have to be like the people in the room. You have to be who you are. Be comfortable all the time with who you are. It became very important to understand who else was in the room, to hear them because I wanted to be heard. And I feel like in these business settings or other scenarios where people are just

echo chambers or they just don’t know how to deal with different people, I want to be able to help people understand the world is very different in so many different ways that we need to be able to be vessels to hear the difference, feel the difference, understand the difference and appreciate the difference because the difference is not a bad thing. It’s really a good

I’ve had a very full life as a result of being who I am in those different scenarios. One of the things I did before I’m doing this, I was teaching a leveraging diversity class at the graduate school of Fisher. we did one, I said, okay, class, today we’re gonna talk about diversity. And there was a student who was like,

the whole class, it’s a two hour class. said, yeah, the whole class. And I bet, I bet we don’t finish. And they were like, what? And we just, and they were fascinated because we did, we talked about diversity for two hours and they just kept the more you, you gave them prompts. They were like, well that’s diversity too. Write that on the board professor, write that on the board. And I said, that’s exactly it. We, we, we’ve let these

words of inclusion and equity and diversity become weaponized when they’re great words. And if you understand what they really mean, they’re amazing, right? I said, we just spent two hours with you defining diversity. Anybody thought that was possible? No, that’s right. It’s great. It’s great.

Shelley E. Kohan (20:35.54)
They are.

Shelley E. Kohan (20:46.784)
That’s funny. So you’ll be happy to hear this, but every in my leadership class, which I teach at Fashion Institute of Technology, we have a three hour module on diversity, equity and inclusion. we definitely, I see this same thing you see in the classroom. The students, know, they think it’s one thing, but when you start those rich conversations, I think by the time, by the end of the class, they get that. So how do you build and maintain an organizational culture?

Kimberly Lee Minor (21:03.991)
Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (21:15.614)
that fosters inclusivity and engagement.

Kimberly Lee Minor (21:18.935)
Yeah, it’s really, it’s by example. You know, if you are a person who is just giving lip service because you really don’t understand the value of an inclusive culture, people will, they’ll know it, they’ll know it. And it won’t live there. But if you are someone who is authentically, it’s not something you have to,

do because it’s who you are, what you bring to the table. You treat people with value, no matter who they are. And it’s a culture of belonging and you understand innately, and I just can’t say it’s your value that we want to be the best. And in order to be the best, we have to have the best at the table. And I’m not going to establish what those limitations are based on the person.

I want certain skill sets and I want to see the accomplishments these people have made while they were doing those things to develop those skills. And it doesn’t matter who they are, it matters what they’ve done and how they think and what they can bring to the table. And as long as people see that consistently, then you’ve got the culture that’s going to win. I believe that, full stop.

Shelley E. Kohan (22:44.19)
Yeah. So what’s the most valuable lesson that you’ve learned as a leader that you’d like to share with aspiring female leaders and even women of color?

Kimberly Lee Minor (22:54.465)
Yeah, I, uh, so there are a few. One is…

know who you are, right? You have to know who you are. So many times, especially young women, they’re like, well, how can I be authentic if, you know, I’m showing up here, I have imposter syndrome, I don’t know if I should be in the room. Know who you are. And then you’ll know what role you have in that space. I was speaking not too long ago and someone asked about imposter syndrome and I said, this is going to sound really crazy.

but I had never heard of imposter syndrome until about a year ago. And someone asked me what it was or asked me how I had overcome it, but I didn’t know what it was. So I had to look it up. said, because as young women, especially we, we judge ourselves against things that look shinier because we don’t know who we are. And so that’s number one. Number two is that you have to be strategic.

Shelley E. Kohan (23:38.9)
Me too.

Shelley E. Kohan (23:42.41)
you

Kimberly Lee Minor (24:02.537)
And you can be authentically strategic, but you have to be strategic about how you’re thinking of something. We also tend to be emotional, right? And so there’s a place for emotion. I’m not saying there isn’t. We are human. You if you want to laugh, laugh, you want to cry, you can cry, but maybe don’t do it in the meeting. But be strategic about…

If this job isn’t working out for you, know where you could go next. Plant those seeds, constantly water those seeds as you’re building your relationships so that it’s not a curtains up, curtains down. When you are ready to make that next move, you strategically planted the seed so that it’s a forward movement on your journey. And then,

The last I will leave you with this is that politics lives everywhere. you know, I hear young people say to me all the time, well, I didn’t want to take that role because I heard it was very political. Politics is everywhere. And if you ever want to really lead a brand, a function, and you really want to be a leader, you have to know how the, you know, where the bacon comes from. You have to know how.

the things work, you have to know how to run the finances. Now I’m not saying you have to be the CFO, but you should definitely know what a P and L looks like, how to manage it, right? And so that’s part of your strategy, but it’s also part of politics because no matter where you are, there’s to be some level of politics. So don’t be afraid to take that opportunity that’s going to get you next because someone has said it’s political.

or you have to be overly strategic. Strategic is really just having a framework, right? And so start working towards that as soon as possible. So that’s the advice or the lessons that I learned along the way that I would then send forward to people to, for young people to understand.

Shelley E. Kohan (26:18.844)
I love that. So what changes would you like to see in the retail landscape in terms of female leadership in the years to come?

Kimberly Lee Minor (26:26.527)
I want an even playing field. just like, why we can’t, how do we have these conversations about meritocracy and it has to be merit based when it’s a different field, right? So if our field is over here and then the playing field’s over here, then how are we being judged against this playing field? Also, once the…

Shelley E. Kohan (26:31.764)
Yeah.

Kimberly Lee Minor (26:53.984)
Once the rules are established, keep the rules. I I think about, I just think about some of the men, and this seems to be a playbook, but there’s a certain gentleman I’m thinking about right now who was the CEO of Big Lots, what, since 2018. What was it? 16 negative quarters, one six.

before the company went bankrupt and then was sold. So the board said, I’ll just keep giving him chances, keep giving him chances. I remember as a vice president,

I had a whole division, right? So five areas. I had turned four around and one was kind of flat and then they had a little dip and there were leadership that was like, well, maybe you might, I don’t know, we should keep you because you didn’t catch that soon enough. Right? And that was a matter of three months. And so, you know, and then you look at the data and women

They’re losing CEO roles faster than they’re gaining them. And on average boards give women two, maybe two, two and a half years to turn a situation around. And they give men eight, eight years. And so that’s not, you can’t talk to me about merit, right? And then that’s the game. So bottom line, even playing field for everyone.

We should all be able to be out there and win or fail on our own, not because someone’s established something that’s, you know, it’s inequitable.

Shelley E. Kohan (28:45.524)
Yeah, I agree with you on that for sure. Has there been like a motto or a quote or a mantra that kind of has guided you throughout your leadership journey?

Kimberly Lee Minor (28:57.439)
Yeah, are two. One is yet. Three easy letters, yet. I might not know it yet. I might not, right? Yet. Yet. I might not know it yet. I might not have achieved it yet. I might not, whatever, yet. But as long as I’m and I have my brain,

Shelley E. Kohan (29:03.08)
Yet?

Kimberly Lee Minor (29:27.07)
and my health. I can get it. I can get there. I can learn. I can do it. So yet, I want everybody to put that up on their wall like yet. The day is not over, right? Like as long as we’re waking up the next day, it might not have happened today, but it can. So yet. That’s a big one.

Shelley E. Kohan (29:48.18)
Love it. I love it. Okay, now we’re gonna do what I call my rapid fire questions. So it’s like boom, boom, boom, super quick. I’m just gonna fire questions at you and you can just answer them quickly. Are you ready? All right. What one piece of advice would you give female leaders that are currently working?

Kimberly Lee Minor (30:00.126)
Okay, yeah.

Kimberly Lee Minor (30:08.847)
Make room for others.

Fill your team. Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (30:12.148)
love that.

Number two, what three tips would you give students or emerging leaders?

Kimberly Lee Minor (30:21.823)
Okay, be curious, number one, ask a lot of questions. Number two, be flexible. You don’t know what you don’t know. Be open to new opportunities and things that you didn’t know about, right? And for the most important skills for leaders are to be lifelong learners, which means you don’t know everything.

Shelley E. Kohan (30:48.649)
That’s awesome. And what is your legacy? So when you what what do you want to be remembered for in the industry for the next generation?

Kimberly Lee Minor (30:59.944)
So I wanna be remembered as a person who…

Put the work in.

and then use that experience to change the industry so other people could put the work in and thrive.

Shelley E. Kohan (31:18.602)
love it. Okay, this is the last question. And the last question can be fun. It could be anything. It doesn’t have to be work related. It could just be anything. What is your secret power?

Kimberly Lee Minor (31:31.326)
I think my superpower is that I have intuitive grit and I don’t know I think I have a special

level of magic that has allowed me to have some crazy life situations and come out like, you know, I have a scratch. Right. So I think that that’s my thing. You know, I, my intuition is really strong and I feel so confident in it that, yeah, and it’s, it provides me the tools to have a grit.

that has fortified me to be in situations that sometimes they are tough, tough, tough, whether they be medical or professional or personal. And I really, I don’t know, I feel like, I forget the name of the character, it’s a new Marvel, what is it, heart of something. But yeah, like I can read a room, I can read people, can.

Right. And that gives me the fortitude to like, I can do this or if I can’t, this is how I’m going to get there. So intuitive grid and magic.

Shelley E. Kohan (32:51.794)
love it. Awesome. Well, Kimberly, it has been a pleasure sitting down to talk with you. I know our students and future leaders will learn so much from hearing your story.

Kimberly Lee Minor (33:00.838)
Well, thank you so much and you take care. It’s always great to see you, Shelly.

Shelley E. Kohan (33:05.14)
Always a pleasure.

Kimberly Lee Minor (33:06.406)
Take care.