Allison, I am so excited to have you here today, and one of the reasons I’m so excited is because you are literally probably the most successful female leader in a, mostly purely, I would say, dominated male led home heating oil industry. So tell us how you were able to navigate through this industry being a woman, and what were some of the significant challenges that you faced on your path to leadership and how you overcame those challenges?

Well, thank you so much for having me, Shelley. And uh, I’m not sure that I’m that successful, but I do try really hard. So, um, I kind of fell into the heating oil industry, uh, by birth when I was, uh, a child. My dad, uh, was running our company and, uh, we used to go and my mom also worked at the company, so we would go and, uh, wash trucks and stuff, envelopes.

As we got older, we got to stuff the calendars every year.  Uh, we would earn our age. So when you were five, you earned $5 for the day and so on. When I got into my teens, I started to say, this is not such a great deal, dad. And, um, then, uh, in my teenage years, I actually came to love the business. I, um, I went out and did oil burner service and learned how to fix oil burners and.

So I really did learn the business from the ground up and I think that that, uh, gave me a lot of confidence about what it is that we do and how we do it. And  so then I went off to college. I planned to go to medical school. I was pre-med, bio minor, but in econ,  but an econ major. And so I always think that maybe I had a little inkling that maybe I was gonna change my.

But, uh, then when I graduated, I, I absolutely did not wanna do four more years of science. I had had it with science and, um, and I asked my dad if I could still come into the business, and he said, sure. So, um, so that’s what I did. Unfortunately, he, he. Pulled a fast one on me. He put me in the sales department and I, uh, had been a very shy young girl and, um, not great at making eye contact with people, um, and thought this was going to be the worst thing that ever happened to me, but it turned out to be the best thing.

Um, learning how to do sales was absolutely life changing and, um.  I gained confidence and momentum. I already believed in our product wholeheartedly because I had grown up in the business. So it was really just about learning some, uh, people skills, which, uh, which I really did.  Then, you know, it’s funny because people say, ah, how did you make it in a male dominated field?

I didn’t really know any better. That is my real answer. My dad and my mom were both such strong people that in our house, men and women were equal. And I grew up, no, not knowing, I. That in the rest of the world, that was not the case, that women weren’t supposed to do certain things in my household. My mom fixed things.

My dad was useless with tools. He didn’t even have a toolbox. My mom had the toolbox with the wrench and the screwdriver, and if things needed to be hung on the wall or a minor repair had to be done, she was the one doing it seemed totally natural to me.  I learned this is not normal. But, um,  yeah, so that’s sort of how I fell into it.

And then my dad, um, my dad got sick really early on. He died at 54. And so when I was just 24, I took over our companies and, uh, again, really didn’t know any better, just knew that that’s what had to be done. And so I, uh, I did it. Oh my God. You took over the company when you were 24? I  did. And trust me, I, I wouldn’t want to again.

I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t advise it. Uh, my daughter’s 25 and although she’s, uh, she works with me and she’s definitely come a long way, but I would not want to, um, have to put her in that position today, although she’d knock it outta the park. She is fantastic.  She’s like, everything good about me. And then she’s got a few better traits.

Like she’s much more patient and better with, uh, with people than I am. I’m a little, I can be abrupt. That’s what I’ve been told. Well, well, I wanna go back to something you said. I think every, I think every single person should work in the service industry or sales industry. I.  That is like a key skill that any future leader should have worked in service, either a restaurant, a retail store, or in some type of sales job.

Shelly, I couldn’t agree with you more.  Um, I especially love it when people have worked for tips because when  you earn a tip, you recognize what value it has and, and how great a tip can make another person feel.  So, although as an adult now, if I go out on service, I refuse tips as the owner of the company.

I don’t think it’s appropriate much to my husband’s chagrin because he, when we go out, we sometimes go out as a duo and he is like, why can’t I take the tips? I’m like, Nope, we don’t take tips. But as a young girl, um, when someone tipped me, I knew I had really done a good job. And, uh, so I, I try to be a pretty good tipper now in, in my old age.

So here you are in this industry, you’re this female leader, and I can imagine like most of the meetings you are attending, it’s going to be surrounded by men. So how did you get a seat at the table and how did you get your voice heard?  Yeah, I sometimes I think it’s, uh, better to be lucky than smart and, um, because my dad had been, um, on the board.

One of the things he did get to teach me in my first three years working with him was how important, uh, participating in industry is that even though you’re busy running your own business, you need to be part of the leadership. You have to be part of the. Body that’s making decisions and that’s advocating for your industry.

And so I spend an inordinate amount of time on my local association board, my state association, the national Association. All kinds of stuff, but it’s all so important because, uh, being, um, in the know, uh, and on the cutting edge of the new technology that’s coming down the pike, well, which of course, you know, Shelly is so key and it keeps you relevant and it

Makes other people look up to you. And again, as I said to you, I didn’t know I wasn’t supposed to be outspoken and forthright and just speak my mind. So I did and I got a reputation for being, um, relatively smart and levelheaded. And so the more willing you are to serve, the more you get asked.  And so, um, I started out just on my local New York Oil Heating Association board because my dad had been on it and he asked them to give me a seat at the table.

But very quickly I started being asked to be a representative of that board ’cause I had the energy, the interest, and um, and was dumb enough not to know the word no. My husband practices that with me all the time. Allison just say, no, no, I can’t. I have to do it.  Great though, and that’s great advice too.

Can you share an example of a difficult decision you had to make and maybe the thought process behind that decision? Yeah. You know, I sometimes I think back to those early days and certainly they were,  um, I’m gonna say the most difficult days, uh, because I was young, less sure of myself and also others were less sure of me.

Uh.  So when I took over, uh, we had just purchased a pretty large company, um, and we owed the bank a lot of money. And I remembered reading the documents ’cause I am a reader and I remembered that my dad’s death would’ve been an event of default on that, uh, on that bank loan, which meant they would’ve probably made us, uh, sell both companies.

Uh, should we not have gotten past that.  So, um, it was a very tough, tough 15 months for me, uh, from the time my dad got diagnosed to when he passed. But  with the help of, uh, some great mentors, my, my accounting firm and my, um, legal firm, I was able to get through, uh, and find a new bank. But in order to do that, I had to really clean up.

Clean house and, um, I fired 30 people in one day. Um, it was 25% of our staff and I will never forget it. It was the hardest day, uh, at work, ever. Uh, because firing one person makes me nauseous. It’s to this day, even if they deserve to be let go, it makes me physically ill. Um, but it has to be done. And so I do do it.

But, uh, choosing those 30 people, mapping out how we were gonna survive this lean, lean time without our leader, without my dad being the new leader was very hard. And, uh, one of the people I had to fire was his secretary  and she was furious at me.  And because here I am this young upstart. Taking away her livelihood, which I didn’t want to do.

I just didn’t need a secretary. I grew up, I had a pc. I could type my own letters, I could do my own computer work. And so she was redundant, but it was a tough day. It was a really tough day. Wow. That’s unbelievable. And at such a young age, you know, going through all of that, I just can’t even imagine how difficult that was.

They say necessity is the mother of invention. And, uh, when you have to do it, you just, there’s no room for should I? It’s, I have to, if we’re gonna survive and the rest of us did survive and we thrived. So I am proud of what I did. I just, I wish I hadn’t had to. Yeah. But look where you are today. So you did the, you made the right moves that had to be made.

Um, what, what do you, what changes would you like to see across, you know, all industry in terms of, you know, female leaderships and getting more women in these leadership positions?  Yeah, it’s, it’s interesting  here in New York we have that, um, paid Family Leave act and um, it’s so funny because I have been thinking to myself recently that that paid family leave act that allows the men to take three months when their wives or or girlfriends have babies may be the best thing that’s ever happened to women in industry.

Because all the laws that said that you couldn’t discriminate against women for taking time off to have children  suddenly are now applicable to men as well. And the reality is, is that you’re not safe with any employee. So now you just have to judge. Employees on the merits of how they do their job when they’re there.

And you can’t assume that they’ll be there permanently because people do move jobs so often anyway, that I do believe that this actually might work out very well for us.  But, you know, what would I like to see? I’d like to see more women. I’d like to see, um, more capable women. So unfortunately, so often really fantastic women do self-select out of the  workforce, um, because they can’t find great, uh, childcare because their husbands make more money than they do.

Um, but it changing. I have actually a few friends who are the breadwinners, or at least co breadwinners, so the thought of them not going back to work isn’t even.  Uh, it doesn’t even cross their minds when they have their children, but, you know, until we stop being the ones who carry the kids, I’m not sure that that’s gonna completely change.

Yeah, that’s true. It’s so funny. I just did a, um, moderation at a big conference, and one of the topics was, it’s a fact. Women have babies, you know? So there you have it. But, um, and you know what, we’re so lucky that we do. I know. You know, I, I still say as much as I, and I absolutely love what I do, I’m one of the luckiest people because I still 32 years later go to work every day.

Pretty happy to go to work most days and, uh, feel good about what I do. But the job that I cherish the most was being a mom and continues to be being a mom, even though I’m now 54.  Um, and I, I would never pass that up. So I, I, you know, urge people who are, even though they’re young in their careers, I always say to them, you know, you can, you can do it all.

And being a mom has been some of the greatest training, uh, anyone could possibly have for leadership.  It really just encompasses everything that you have to do as a leader in a company. I mean, negotiation and um, multitasking and compartmentalization. I mean, you literally tick off every single box as a mom,  you know?

Hopefully if you could do that pretty well, then you can run a company pretty well too.  Those are really good points. Let’s switch gears here and let’s talk about role modeling and mentoring. I know that you spent a lot of time mentoring, um, women, and so I’d like to start by asking you, have you had any role models or mentors throughout your leadership journey and how has that impacted your leadership style?

So, yeah, it’s interesting because, um, when I think about role models,  you know, they’re not, I have some female role models and some male role models.  When I think about, uh, my dad, he was, um, a very, very tenacious, hardworking man who, um, set his sights on something and did not stop until he achieved it. So I like to think that he was my, my first mentor.

But, um, then in the working world, I’ve been lucky enough to have a couple of women in my life who were unbelievable mentors. The first was my, um, was my first accountant Shelly, um, Barnett. And she, um, she  was so fantastic. She had not even completed college when she had her three children. She went back after having three kids, finished college, became a CPA, and became a partner.

Um, in record time because she was fantastic. She had great business sense, um, and, and she had the technical expertise to be an accountant too. But I’ve never yet found an accountant who, who gave me the kind of advice that she gave me, and I, I do miss her. She retired. About, um, I’m gonna say 15 years into my career, but she was there when I needed her, thank God.

And then another great role model I’ve had has been my, uh, my banker for the last 15 years. Oh, nice. Um, Jane has been there. She taught me, uh, one of the most interesting things she said to me, Allison, I need all your financials and I look at your bank accounts and I look at your projections. She said, but I loan money to people.

I loan money to people that I believe are going to pay me back, and I know that you are that kind of person that’s never going to not pay me back, and that’s why I’m comfortable extending you these lines of credit that have allowed me to grow my business, and so I’m very grateful to her as well.  That’s great.

Oh my gosh. And you know, our whole mission in doing this podcast is to provide inspiration for future female leaders, but you know, also to help any existing leaders that are currently in, uh, our industries to succeed. So how do you actively mentor or support the development of future female leaders and how do you, or how do you com incorporate this into your everyday life?

So, I wanna be completely honest that when I was raising my children.  I didn’t have a lot of time to do that. I tried to mentor women by, by being a, a good example, but I didn’t at the time take a lot of time out of my time and my schedule to do that. Now that my kids are old, my daughter’s 25, my son’s about to graduate college.

Um, I have more time and a little more emotional bandwidth, if you will. And so number one, I’m, I’m trying to mentor my daughter into, uh, succeeding me. She’s been in the company now three and a half years, and she’s doing a great job. And that, that’s a pretty big job. That is a big job, you know. Not telling someone how to do it, but letting them do it and figuring out how to, how to find that balance when you are the mom.

It, it’s super tricky, but I also serve on an.  A board, uh, for women in energy, um, which is an association that was only formed about, I’m gonna say six years ago. And at first I had this weird negative reaction toward women in energy. I thought, why do we need an association? I’ve been a woman in energy all this time, and I didn’t have an association.

And then I realized you’re a big dummy, um, because there are a lot of women in this industry who didn’t have the opportunities that you had, who didn’t, you know, come into the lucky birth club and get to be, uh, the head of their company and they have to work from the bottom up at externally and they need mentoring.

And so, um, I, I do a lot, uh, I, I speak on panels.  Really reach out to a lot of the young women and tell them they can call me anytime. And if I don’t know, I will tell them I don’t know. But I can also, usually, I usually know the right people to call to get the answers. So, um, so I’ve really enjoyed doing that.

That’s, that’s been a lot of fun. That’s great. Um, is there like a motto or a quote or a mantra you kind of live through or has guided your leadership style? So, I.  I read a quote, it, it’s not my whole life though. I only saw it, I guess it’s about five or six years ago. And, um, it was ironically on the wall of our local public school,  and I saw it on a day when my son had been asked to leave his private school and we were touring the public school because that’s where he was going to finish up his high school career.

So this quote spoke to me, but also has resonated with me and, and continues to, it said a bend in the road is not an end of the road unless you fail to make the turn.  And I thought to myself,  oh my gosh, I’ve been living this all along because I did not always take the most direct path anywhere, but I, I’ve gotten where I’ve wanted to go, always.

Um.  And we can’t let one failure or one perceived failure derail us. You just have to brush yourself off, get up and keep going. And, uh, so I, I think it really does sum up my, my philosophy. I’ve loved that. That’s great.  So now we’re getting into what I call my rapid fire questions. So these are questions.

I’m just gonna like fire at you and you’re gonna gimme your like quick, quick answers. So it’s like the jeopardy round. Is that, is that what Yeah, like final jeopardy. Are you ready? I’m ready. All right. Here we go. What one piece of advice would you give female leaders that are currently working today?

Trust yourself. Don’t second guess.  Love it. What three tips would you give students? Our emerging leaders of the future?  Hmm.  Work hard  and, uh, because putting in the work pays off.  I’d also say  be true to yourself. Don’t let others take you down a path that you don’t wanna go down.  And, um, don’t take yourself too seriously.

You only get one life as the kids say yolo. Um, you better find time to enjoy it.  I love it. Those, that’s great tips. And lastly, what do you want to leave behind for the next generation? What do you want your legacy to be? Um, so I think I’d like my legacy to be  that I was fair  and I.  I, I believe that in at home as well as at work.

I’ve never been easy. I’m not easy to be with, uh, or to work for, I’m sure.  Or to, or to have as a mom. But I absolutely try to treat everyone with respect and dignity and, um, and take everyone, uh, at the level that they’re ready to be at. So I, I hope that, uh, you know, on my, on my gravestone, they’ll write,  she was fair and she cared.

Oh, that’s great. So I have one last question for you. Now this could be a fun question. It doesn’t have to be work related. It could be anything. Okay.  Okay. What is your secret power?  I think this is gonna sound a little bit conceited, but I guess anytime you say what uh, your own power is, it maybe is a bit conceited.

But I think my secret power. Is being a really good mom and taking those skills and employing them across the board at work and at home.  I think that’s a great secret power.  Any closing thoughts you’d like to share? Um, I, I’m really honored to have been asked to be part of this and I’m not sure that I, uh.

Was fully equipped to do it, but, um, I, I appreciate your time and certainly, uh, always happy to support another woman in industry. So very impressed by you writing your book and, uh, can’t wait to see how it turns out. My gosh. You are fantastic. Fabulous. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks, Shelly.