I am so excited to have Imani Laners here, who I would call a multicultural consumer evangelist. She currently is the vice president of Multicultural Partnerships and Investments at Zeta Global, and she has a wealth of experience in media for many years working with some of the highest established brands.

Imani early on in her career was head of digital media for Black Enterprise Magazine, where she shattered revenue records and orchestrated pioneering first in market campaigns for companies like FedEx, Toyota, Walmart, Amtrak, state Farm, on and on. So she is super dynamic. She is reshaping the landscape of multicultural media powered by intelligence.

Amani, I am so excited to have you here on the Leadership Podcast. So just to give a point of reference, I met you a few years ago. You were on a panel at a marketing conference. I swear, I distinctly remember thinking as I’m sitting there in the audience, oh my God, this how dynamic of a speaker is this person?

And what I loved about you right off the bat was that you exuberated this extreme confidence. So, uh, welcome to the podcast. Thank, thank you. And let’s,  let’s start with, you know, that’s a great characteristic. How, how, how do you, how’d you build this level of presence and confidence? Thank you so much. Well, first I wanna thank you, Shelly.

You are a dynamic leader out in the marketplace, just making waves in retail and being the ultimate influencer. So I’m honored to be here to speak with you today,  level of confidence and presence. I had to, I had to take this one back a little bit. Um, I am from New Orleans, Louisiana, and if you’ve been there, you know we are a city of food and entertainment.

Growing up in a house where you constantly had people that had their voice and it was known and you can sit around the table and you had to kind of play jump rope to get in. I started learning early that I needed to have a presence and I needed to make sure that I was, had a voice in these conversations.

Um, that, you know, from a, from a early childhood, I saw a lot of people that were confident in my family, um, people in the neighborhood and was able to say, you know what? I need to figure out how I can, you know, make my mark and, and really who is Imani when I wanna, you know, be considered, um, a, a, um, you know, a person with a voice and, and, and someone who can actually insert themselves in in conversation.

But over the years as I got older, um, high school and whatnot, I found myself going into retail sales.  So some of your younger listeners would understand you have a job, um, you know, after school. And, um, I was at the gap. And then I also sold suits at one point. And being able to see people come through the door, especially people that are uncertain, and then you have to rise to the occasion to make sure when they leave that they’ve gotten everything they wanted and they’re fulfilled.

And that’s a big task. But I think that retail jobs have helped me with that confidence because I’m seeing all different types of personalities and I’m able to, you know, go in and, and get to know everybody where they are. And in some cases I’m also giving them confidence because I need to make sure that they’re happy with their purchase when they leave.

Um, and then I think my final thing would be probably in high school as a cheerleader.  Ah,  I did not know that. That’s outstanding. Oh my God, how fun. How fun was that? Oh my God. Oh my gosh. Exciting. I know. You know, whether the team lost or whether they won, you know, you had to keep the crowd pumped. So, um, I think that played a role as well.

As you’re going out, you don’t know what size crowd you’re gonna get. You don’t know what the performance is gonna be on the field. And you had to be able to manage both. You had to take the energy off the field, whether the team was performing well or not, and then you had to look in that crowd and continue to make them happy and wanna support this team for future, for future games.

So I think that played a huge role as well. I. Oh my gosh, Imani. That’s so cool. And I bet you didn’t know this at the time, but what you just described, this getting out and then kinda looking at the situation, that’s situational leadership. You had to go on the field and say, okay, what’s the crowd, what’s the team doing?

How do we make this happen? So you were practicing leadership skills back in high school that you probably didn’t realize at the time. I did not, I just thought, please don’t let anybody from these stands throw something at us. Oh, yeah, I’m sure. But yeah, I didn’t, I didn’t know that. That’s a good point, Shelly.

Thank you. I, I didn’t look at it that way. Yeah. Well, hey, listen, some of our listeners may not know this about you, but I’m gonna make sure they know this about you because I’m gonna tell, I’m gonna say something about you that I’m very impressed by. But you were actually awarded one of the top women in media, in ad Tech in marketing.

And, uh, so tell us about your journey of becoming one of the leading women, and how’d you get there, and what was that journey like for you?  So I never, it’s, it’s funny you should say that ’cause I think when you’re in a position and people are calling you a leader or someone you, they can look up to or even wanna seek advice, you, you still gotta sit with yourself, um, and realize you’re in that position.

So I think for me, when I told you I was in retail at one point, I needed to transition out of retail and I knew I was creative.  I knew I still wanted to be in front of people and I interviewed with a local newspaper and I, you know, finagled my skills to say, you know, I’ve never done advertising, but I know how to speak to people

Very creative, convincing, and again, I wanna make sure that they’re satisfied with whatever that purchase may be. So, transitioned into newspaper, and one thing that got me was, um, the state paper. The rep that was in the same territory as me, he, um, saw me one day and he pulled me aside and he said, I had to, I have to get you out of this territory.

And I said, why? And he said, all of my clients are loving you, so you have to come work for the state paper. I can’t no longer compete with you. And that was the first time I realized, wow. I’m a leader, I’m impactful. Or these business owners in these companies are, are talking my name when I’m not in the room.

So fast forward and just doing that same thing, amazing showing up and you know, seeing what the task at hand is and working with a team to get that task done. And while I’m doing it, unbeknownst to me, I am being perceived as a leader. And the other side of that is innovation. I always wanted to bring new things to the marketplace.

So a lot of things across, you know, that I’ve done in my career have been first in market opportunities, whether that be campaigns or starting the first personal data conference that was here in New York City. No one was doing it. Yes, that was me. Um, wow. Um, um, a colleague of mine, we put together a conference focusing on personal data.

It was an entire four day conference and again, innovation. So that’s where I think. That comes from in terms of the path, you know, being able to see where I am now, how I can make a, um, an impact moving forward, and what can I bring that’s first in market. To kind of, you know, just start a path for someone else to eventually take over.

We had calls from around the world that people wanted to, um, you know, do the same conference as us. So that was interesting as well. So, so yeah, I think, I hope that’s a, that’s a good question. That’s kind of my journey there. Um, so I would say, you know, I was scared. I’m not gonna say that I was not scared, but I took a risk.

I knew when you do things first in market and you bring innovation or any type of product creation, it is going to win every time. So, um, I was honored to be featured as a top woman in advertising and marketing technology, so that is just awesome. And by the way, you’re so personable. I think that adds to the dynamic.

Like, you’re smart, you’re out there, you’re ahead of everyone, and you’re so personable. Thank you. Like the, uh. Person that said to you at that news place, you know people, our clients love you. Well, of course they do. I can see that ’cause of your personality. So I think that adds to it. Thank you. So how would you describe, if you had to like describe your leadership or maybe your philosophy on leadership, how, how, what would you say about that?

So I thought about this question and what I would say about my philosophy on leadership is.  I know I’m a leader, but I also like to be led  so.  At times, you know, we, we feel the pressure of making sure that we understand people are looking at us and sometimes we wanna make a mistake and, and not intentionally, but we wanna have room to be able to fail and, and, and not be judged.

But the pressure of people looking on you, you have your leadership hat on. So a lot of times what I try to do is make sure that I always put myself in a position where people see that I’m being led as well. So I work for a great, interesting, um, leader right now, um, at Zeta, um, global. And I love being led by, uh, by him.

He’s a phenomenal individual. Um, people see that I respect him very much, and then it, you can kind of see the dynamic of she, she, she really likes to be led and then she’s learning and now she’s able to, to be a leader in that regard. So I would say lead. But also show in that persona, in that the way you show up, that you also are being led  and, and kind of make it a balance so people don’t put as much pressure on you and you can kind of, you know, spread your wings a little bit and, and, and be able to say, okay, I can make a mistake.

I can go back and have somebody give me advice. And then people will be able to look on and say, wow, you know, she’s able to take in.  Someone leading her, and I wanna implement that as well. I don’t wanna have the pressure of everybody watching me, and I have to be perfect. I know that, um, I also need to be led and wanna let people know that I’m doing that as well.

So I love that perspective. That’s a great perspective. And you and I did not have a conversation before the podcast about, you know, leadership skills and stuff and what I teach at FIT in the leadership class, but I actually teach students that more important than being the leader is the first follower.

Oh, the first follower is actually more important because, um, it’s, that’s important that then people can kind of follow, right? Yes. So that first follower, so that’s a little kind of about what you talked about, about also being a great follower makes you a great leader. Yes. And people need to see that right.

And then they also can see I, I like that you said that, Shelly, but they also can see who you respect and the type of leaders that you look up to, and they can kind of see how your cloth is being woven.  And, and, and, and try to see how they can weave their cloth. You know, she’s being led by her boss, but then she’s also, you know, very, um, loves seeing what, um, someone that may be working alongside her is doing that’s a leader.

You know, people that are at the same level as you doing the same thing. So, um, it it’s, it’s a mixture. It’s like a gumbo. It’s like a gumbo. You gotta have a, a lot of different things in the pot. So.  That’s such a New Orleans sail. I know. I knew I had to bring it, I had to put it in there.  So, uh, so we know it’s not always smooth sailing.

Right. We always have challenges. So can you tell us maybe some, or one of your biggest challenges that you faced in your path, the leadership, and what did you do to overcome that? So one of the biggest challenges I would say would be when people try to define who you are. And I’ll tell you a story of when I was in kindergarten.

Yeah, it started that early. Um, I went to a great kindergarten, um, school in New Orleans, and at the end of the year we got a yearbook, almost like it was a high school yearbook. But you, the kindergarten class was the seniors. You get it right, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they had the nursery school, then it progressed pre-K.

pre-K was juniors and so forth. So it was my kindergarten, a k, a senior year.  And that year we got treated like Princess and princesses, you know, they would, you know, dote on us. Um, we would, um, get, they would ask us questions about what we wanted to be when we grew up. We got our head shots with our nice cap and gown, and I remember my cousins were in the same class as me, and one of my cousins was asked, what does he wanna be

And he said, A cowboy.  And I, I just was like, wow, that’s great. And another cousin was asked, and I believe he said he wanted to be a fireman or policeman,  and the teacher then asked me what I wanted to be, and I looked at her and I said, I wanna be a business owner.  The yearbook came out about two weeks later and I opened it up with excitement  and it did not say under my name, a business owner,  it said, store.

I looked at my mom and I couldn’t pronounce proprietor at the time, so I said this P word. You were five. You were five. Exactly. I said, mom, that does, you know, I remember it distinctly. That does not say business owner. And she did this thing that I’ll never forget and, and, and she’s a great mother, but she said it’s okay.

Kind of smoothed it over. It’s not, it, it’s not a big deal. It means the same thing. But even at five, I knew. It didn’t mean the same thing. I told the teacher business owner, she put store proprietor. I went into, I didn’t know the word retraction, but how can this be fixed? We need a new book, and it was a, I was very upset.

So that’s a, that’s a story that I want you to resonate with because that happens as we get older. Someone will look at you, Shelly, and you have, you know, a plethora of different ways you’re impacting the, the, the industry and teaching the next generation. And you do this and you’re this, and you’re this.

And someone will say, well, Shelly, I, I need you to kind of stay here. Let me, let me, let me try to mold you in this lane where I see you’re doing. You’re like, that’s not me.  And so I think that’s the biggest challenge is people keeping you in a box. And you have to be brave enough to let people know that I will not be put in a box.

This is what I wanna be, this is who I am, this is how I show up best. And if you’re gonna want a hundred percent out of me, please work with me to help me shape that individual, not the individual that you are seeing, you know, just as this one lane. So, um, so yeah, I took that with me since I was five. Um, anything anyone ask me, I made sure they reiterated, made sure it was correct.

Made sure that the story was being told the way I want it to be told. So, um, that’s probably one of the biggest challenges. It doesn’t happens till this day too, so. Wow, that’s so interesting. And I love how you said, um, I, I know how I show up best. I.  I love that. That’s such great advice too. Yeah. I mean, do you feel that, you feel that for yourself, you know percent, a hundred percent.

You, you know when you’re gonna show up your best and you know, when you’re, you know, not, and I totally agree. The whole keeping people in boxes is problematic. Yeah. Especially women. Exactly. And I think, I love that you said that because I think that the women that soar and the people that soar, I’ll just say people in general, a lot of times you’ll see that they’re not being kept in a box.

They’re allowed to. And even if they wanna stay in a lane, it’s not a box per se, it’s, but where I feel most valuable, I’m navigating there and I’m allowed to be. And I think that’s, um, you know, that’s a good thing. So.  Great. So let’s switch gears here and talk about role modeling and mentoring. So I’d love to know, were there any mentors in your life, in your career, your life who influenced your leadership journey and also what impact did their mentorship have on your leadership?

Great question.  So throughout my life, and I’ve been fortunate, and, um, I look at all of the positions I’ve ever had and we, we’ll just talk from a, um, career standpoint.  I’ve been fortunate to have been in the room or have been able to be led or, or have been able to, um, you know, just be in the presence of the highest leadership at all the organizations I’ve ever worked for.

So that’s been a big thing for me. And I’ve been in the room with the CEOs of most of the companies that I’ve worked for. Um, I’ve worked alongside them, maybe even, you know, even, even an assistant role, let’s say I was an assistant. But seeing them, how they move, how they lead, how people talk about them.

’cause keep in mind. We are with the employees most of the time and we hear things and a lot of times I don’t think we realize that people that are in these leadership roles, they are the ones that are taking it all on.  Um, I worked for a CEO once and I remember him saying, it’s lonely at the top. And I took that with me for, you know, forever.

And I really sat with that and go, wow, you are in charge of leading all these people. You’re in charge of making sure households have money to feed kids. You are in charge of making sure that a business trajectory stays on track and still you have to stay sane and you have to be able to steer the ship whether people are jumping off, whether competitors are coming from you.

It was just everything. So I think looking at them has helped me be a better leader because I’ve been in that proximity and I’ve been able to see that, and it’s been a wonderful thing.  Um, and I’ve been fortunate to work for some great leaders over my career. I, I have nothing bad to say about any of them.

I know that’s not the case for everybody, but, um, if I, if I look at everybody I’ve worked for and those CEOs, um, from, um, my newspaper days all the way to current.  Um, they exude, um, innovation, they exude, um, loyalty. That’s a big one. Loyalty. And then also, um, being able to motivate people in a way that helps them want to achieve the mission at hand.

That’s great. Thank you so much. Mm-hmm. Wow. So, uh, our mission in doing this podcast is really to provide inspiration to future female leaders, but also to help any existing leaders that are in our industry help them to succeed. So, how do you actively mentor the development of future female leaders?

How do you incorporate mentorship in your everyday life?  Shelly, great question. So, um, I consider you a mentor, by the way. I, I, you know, how you started this session with, I’m gonna tell them things that they didn’t know about you. I, I consider you a mentor as well, the way you show up. Um, it’s, we are watching, we are seeing, and, and we’re, we’re, um, you know, we are acknowledging, um, your contribution.

So, um, this question is easy. I take the call.  There have been times where I am mentoring on the weekends. People that are being considered for C-Suite positions at major, major companies  call for three hours. Um, I was at work yesterday. I utilized my lunchtime, which it should be utilized for eating to talk to a client that needed my mentorship.

And this person is a client of mine. And when we got off the phone, she said to me, wow. I. I didn’t see it that way, and, and now I’m, I’ve flipped the way I’m, I’m proceeding with X, so I take the call. In terms of young people, I don’t have a standing, like, uh, most people like appointment. I meet this person every Wednesday or every once a month, but I do get a lot of calls saying, my student, you know, you, Penn wants to meet with you.

They have questions, and I’ll take that. You know what I mean? I’ll, I’ll take those calls in and try to guide them, but most importantly, with the mentorship connection. Who do you need to be connected with that’ll help you get to a place that you need to be? And I’ll say a story, and I know you’re gonna love this one.

I had a dinner a while back with, um, several clients. It was probably about six of us. And someone at the table had mentioned that they had, were, you know, they were, um, at a current company. They got a bad review. They wanted her to be again, and they said a smile more. So it was that box conversation. And I said to her, what are you?

And you know, what’s your role right now? And she said, I’m a supervisor. And I said, well, what would you like to be? And she said, I’d like to be an associate media director. And within two weeks, I see, you know, when the confetti falls on LinkedIn, I see confetti falling.  And I see her announcing she’s an associate media director, but what you don’t know is two days after that dinner, I introduced her to an hiring manager.

At an agency and made him aware that she wanted to be an associate media director, and then  two weeks later, confetti.  I know and I’m, I’m very proud of the way, I just don’t talk. I try to put things into action because you can lead people, but they’re still confused. Yeah. And sometimes they get a little hesitant to call you back ’cause they think you gave them so much and they should be able to take the ball and run.

But I think taking the ball and run means what resource can I give you that’s gonna take you from the point that I brought you to the next. Point. So, um, that’s a, that was a great story to share in terms of how I go about mentorship. That’s great. And by the way, you’ve actually introduced me to a lot of people.

You’re a great connector of people. You, you just connect people, like-minded people together. People say that all the time. They say that all the time. So, Shelly, we should do a dinner connector dinner.  Let’s do it. Let’s do it.  So, uh, all right, so here we’re gonna do rapid fire questions. So this is one, I’m just gonna like, throw out a bunch of questions and quick, quick, quick.

You have to answer them. So are you ready for this?  Lemme take a deep breath here. Okay. Loosen my shoulders.  Okay. All right. I am ready. All right. Here’s the first one. What one piece of advice would you give to female leaders that are currently working today?  So the one piece of advice I would give female leaders that are currently working today is you are leading someone.

Sit with them and see why they consider you a leader.  So a lot of times when I’m speaking with people, or like I said, mentoring, whether it be C-Suite or um, someone at the same level as me or, or a client or even, you know, father, you know, anybody, people feel comfortable talking to me. Um, I, I kind of wanna know, you know, why, why me?

And, and, and what, why did you, what did you get out of speaking with me that helped propel you to that next level? And I think once you start to continue to hear these stories, you are gonna then be able to realize how you can strengthen. That,  um, superpower, as people would call it. And you’re also gonna see a weakness, um, because people will then let you know ing um, yeah, where, you know, you told me this, but I still didn’t have this, and that’s why I did the.

Connect because I think at one point I had gave great advice, but they were hesitant to to, to move forward. ’cause they still were confused as to they, they weren’t confident in moving forward. So I think that’s the advice I would give As you’re, you’re giving an opinion or as you’re helping people kind of circle back and say, you know, was I, was I successful helping you?

You know, and, and why did you choose to come to me with that? You could have chosen anybody and they’ll let you know. Um, I think on LinkedIn right now, I have about. I know people don’t do these anymore, but I think I have about 36 recommendations. Nice. Which is pretty high. Yeah. So, um, I like to read them because I like to see why I’m being chosen.

Oh, great. And, and I’m grateful to be chosen. So, so yeah, that’s, that’s what the advice I would give them. Interesting. Okay, so second question is what three tips would you give students are emerging leaders? So the three tips I would give them, and again we’re going back to the leadership word, is.  Don’t put too much pressure on yourself to be perfect.

When people are looking at leaders, they’re also looking at people that have failed and how they recuperate from that failure.  Um, so I think more or less as you’re navigating and you’re doing things, whatever that may be, representing yourself as a student or, you know, maybe building a new business or even starting the interview, you know, it is okay to be vulnerable.

And let people know, you know, this didn’t work for me, but this is what I did to get back on path.  Also, I think so that’s the first advice. The second advice I would give is to really, and I know people say this all the time, and find mentors and find sponsors and you know, we say it all the time, but then as I talk to people, they still aren’t, a lot of people still aren’t doing it, and in some cases I’m not doing it, you know?

Um, so I would say that anybody could be a mentor to you. Most of the time it’s our parent.  It’s an aunt, it’s an uncle. It’s someone we went to school with that knew us from age five on. And what I would say is take the strengths and the, and the knowledge you get from all of those people and do them a favor.

And utilize all of that and create your blanket with all of that knowledge. And then really work on being able to be intentional about shaping yourself and being aware of how you show up.  So instead of worrying about leading, once you do that, the right people will navigate towards you and then you’ll be more impactful as opposed to trying to fit in everywhere and it’s not authentic to you.

So a leader does not have to be someone you’ve worked with. Or a just your professor, your mom, your dad, your aunt, uncle, grandparent, even someone you may have met just um, as a friend, that’s a colleague that has been able to guide you. Utilize all of that, bring that together and then figure out how you wanna show up so that the right people are then being able to nav, you know, um, attract, um, what knowledge you’re able to put in the marketplace to help them.

Um, and then the third I would say is while you’re leading, don’t be afraid to ask.  So great. I got advice recently that  people think I don’t need anything. I don’t need any help. Remember how you say you’re a connector and, but I love to be connected too. Right? And, um, um, a wonderful, um.  Um, leader that I work for now, she, she leads, um, the sales team that I’m on, um, at Zeta, she connected me with an individual and when that happened, I said to myself, I just love that she thought about me and thought that this person would be someone that I wanna know.

And this, this individual is very busy and, um, and, you know, she’s leading a huge team. But that, that made me feel good. And I think that we should let people know that, um, while we’re. Trying to be in this role and be a leader and, you know, take everything in. We also, again, going back to be led,  we also need help.

We also need introductions as well, because as we are getting those introductions or, or, or strengthening it will help us be more powerful in, you know, our role as well. So tho those are the three things I would say. That’s excellent. Thank you so much. Um, so what do you wanna leave behind for the next generation?

Or what do you want your legacy to be?  So, it’s so funny you should say that, and I think you would identify with this. I didn’t, I knew LinkedIn was a powerful tool,  but, um, I didn’t realize that you can walk in a space, and I’m sure you have Shelly and someone goes, oh my gosh, I follow you, Shelly. I,  and, and that happened to me the other day and I thought, wow, I’m truly leaving a legacy  I’m not  writing down and what I wanna do, my, my, my movements.

Yes.  My reiteration of anything that’s happening that I feel is valuable to be put out there is leaving a legacy and the light in that person’s eyes when she ran up to me and was like, oh my gosh, I did never thought I’d meet you in person. And, and I was looking around like, is it, are you talking to me?

But she was, and it’s happened before. It wasn’t the only time, but I realized that’s what the legacy’s gonna be. And um. There was a gentleman, um,  Arne Sorinson, I hope I’m pronouncing his last name right. He used to be the CEO of Marriott  and I was a keynote speaker for Lodging Magazine years ago, and Arne was on the stage.

And going back to what you said about confidence, I said I have to meet Arne. I don’t care if I just go up to him and say, I stayed at a Marriott before and I love it. And that’s the extent of what he hears from me. I have to meet this gentleman. And unbeknownst to me, not only was I able to meet him, we actually conversated.

Wow. And I believe the CEO of Choice Hotels at the time jumped into that conversation. So I’m conversating with two CEOs of major, major companies and one of the things I thought about was not only this guy, a leader, but it’s effortless in the legacy he’s gonna lead’s  effortless. Every time I saw him show up, whether it be an article or a video or anything, I felt compelled to watch, I leaned in.

I shared and I took whatever he said and thought to myself, how can I implement it? And that’s the legacy. That’s, it wasn’t, this is what I’m gonna leave. I thi leave. I think the leaving is however I show up and what you take away from it is what I wanna wanna leave. So, um, so that’s a great example of that.

Yeah. That’s great. And you are awesome on LinkedIn. I’m one of your biggest followers and fans on LinkedIn. Thank you. And the feelings are mutual. I’m like, I cannot miss it. She goes somewhere recently, did she cover something recently? So, yeah. Um, the feelings are mutual there. Well, thank you. Okay, our last question

Now, this could be a fun one. It doesn’t have to be work, it could be anything. But I wanna know what is your secret power? Secret power. And I, and I’m very good at this,  I just can talk to anybody.  I can talk to anybody and, and that’s a, that’s a good thing, but it’s a scary thing too. I can get in an Uber, my Uber score is 5.0 and you know, some days you get in an Uber, you don’t wanna talk to anybody, and I thought to myself, why is my Uber score at a 5.0?

And one time I think it was my Lyft. No, Lyft is at a 5.0. Uber, I think was at a 4.9. And guess what? It went down to 4.9 when I had my mom with me. And she, she went out of the other side of the car and the guy said, go out on the, the, the, the curbside. And I said, oh. But I thought to myself, that’s not a big deal.

But, but anyway, I can talk to anybody if you’re if, and you don’t, it’s not about being kind or, you know, it’s always bubbly. It’s just that, like I said about retail, you’re meeting all these different personalities. We’re all human. We’re all battling and not battling. ’cause everything’s not a battle. Some of us are having great, great lives right now where we don’t really feel any friction and some people are having challenging lives.

But I think that a gift would be to be able to find commonality in something even for a second. Mm-hmm. You don’t have to be that person’s best friend, but just a second and be able to say, I see you and you see me.  And, you know, that’s, that’s it. So yeah, I, um, I talk to my Uber drivers. I get in with the intention of not talking and having a silent ride.

And by the end we’re, we’re swapping business ideas. So, so yeah. So I think that’s my superpower.  I love it. So are there any closing thoughts that you’d like to share?  Well, I think what you’re doing is great. I think, um, this is very needed. I hope that I’ve been able to add value to someone today. Yes. Um, yeah.

We just gotta keep rising, you know? Right. Keep doing what we’re doing, um, and live passionately. But also do not forget that we also need help as well. So That’s right. You know, I always tell you this, I think I’ve already told you, but if you, if it’s in my power to connect you or do something for you, I’ll be available to you.

And, um, I’m grateful that you came to, um, our, that conference saw me and um, yeah. And we’ve been able to, to connect ever since. So, um, it’s an honor. It’s an honor. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much. Thanks for being here. And thank you so much for everything. You were awesome. Thank you.