Shelley E. Kohan (00:47)
Cyndi I’m so excited to have you on Lead Like Her. Welcome.

Cyndi Rhoades (00:52)
Thanks so much. It’s such a pleasure to be here today, Shelley, and I’m looking forward to the conversation.

Shelley E. Kohan (01:00)
You have such a fascinating background and I know our students and young female leaders everywhere will just learn so much from our conversation. So let’s get started. And I actually want to start, because I want you to talk about your early years, because you, I think, have a fascinating journey in those early years really kind of ⁓ developed the next decades of your entire life. You actually started in the film industry.

Cyndi Rhoades (01:26)
I did, I did. I think it’s safe to say that when I was younger, I had no idea what I wanted to do. I had no idea what my direction would be. Some people know they want to be a fireman when they’re 10 years old, firewoman. And ⁓ I just, took me many, years, but I started out in a very creative background where I…

got involved in, I did a short filmmaking course, ⁓ but then decided to dive straight into the industry. So I had moved from Columbus, Ohio.

to California, San Francisco, then Los Angeles, and was able to work my way up the ladder. Well, not much there. In LA, I started out kind of bottom of the heap there as a runner. Got a bit of experience, and then I moved to London and immediately got film work here, music videos, ⁓ commercials, and worked my way up the ladder. That was fun.

But as I was doing that type of work, which was very much fun, I realized kind of my personal interests had started to change. I got a lot more interested in things like kind of what made the world tick, global economics and social and environmental issues. And so as my personal interests changed, so did my…

interests or passion for what I wanted to do. And ⁓ that led me down a path of discovery where

Somehow I ended up learning about the topic of textiles and the challenge of textiles. I’ll give you a quick fact or two. ⁓ So today over 90 million tons of textile waste is generated every year around the world. ⁓ And we’re producing over 110 million tons of new raw materials to make new products every year. So essentially we’re throwing away almost as much as we’re making.

every year and for me that became a really big issue and a challenge and I realized that’s the thing I want to dedicate my life to. I want to find a solution or be part of a solution. I won’t be as bold as saying it’s the only solution by any means but it kind of that was the thing that got me out of bed every day and and led to me setting up a company called Worn Again in 2005 and

It was a very simple premise. ⁓

How can we find and develop solutions that could help to eradicate textile waste? And that was the premise of it. So we started out in upcycling, taking old textiles and making new products, selling them onto first consumers. And then that evolved into, how about we work with companies? Companies are producing large volumes of waste. So we worked with them to take their textile waste, make second life products that they could then buy back into the business.

But it wasn’t until 2015, sorry 2012, when the real light bulb moment came and…

I was introduced to a scientist who had been working in polymer recycling, which I won’t go into the detail, but essentially we brought my vision together with his ⁓ chemistry mind and we started the development of a solution that could take end of use textiles, break them down, separate polyester and cotton, the two highest use fibers, and put both of those materials through a process that could purify and extract

raw materials to go back into supply chains to become new textiles all over again. Essentially circular textiles and that’s what I’ve dedicating my life to for the last 20 years is moving to a world where new textiles are made out of existing textile raw materials.

Shelley E. Kohan (05:42)
I love that. And when you talk about your journey and you talk about this passion that sparked in you, what kind of age were you at in terms of when the light bulb went off and you said, my God, I have to do something to save the earth. Like, was that in your early years?

Cyndi Rhoades (05:59)
It was much, I mean, was well into, well, mid-twenties, kind of mid-twenties to thirties, and it was…

Shelley E. Kohan (06:07)
Okay.

Cyndi Rhoades (06:12)
It was, yes, I want to do something that makes a difference, but I also realized I wanted to use business as a platform for this change. I wanted to get into the heart of big business and say, business is causing the problem, or some of it. How can we work from within to actually come up with some of these solutions?

Shelley E. Kohan (06:33)
think that a lot of ⁓ young women, a lot of students, they think they have to know exactly what they’re going to do when they graduate. And you’re graduating, what, 20-something years old? No one knows. And so it’s great that you’re great evidence of, it’s not going to be there the second you walk out of college. It’s going to take a little bit of time. Or the second you start in the industry, you might go a different route. So I want to talk about, kind of in 2005,

You know, here you are, you’re a woman in the industry, and you made it sound kind of easy. I opened up a company and then I did this. But tell us a little bit about what was that like, you know, that journey? Were there difficult aspects of the journey? Were there some like positive highlights that just really helped you navigate through, you know, really starting your own company?

Cyndi Rhoades (07:23)
There are so many to mention and the journey has been such a roller coaster over the last 20 years. The highs are very exciting because you think we’re really on a roll, we’re gonna make it happen. And then the lows bring you down and make you think, why did I decide to go this route? But I think ultimately,

When you set up a business or focus your career on solving a global problem, you’re never gonna get bored. You’re always going to have something to do. ⁓ And so I think that ultimately that gives you the motivation to keep going even in those low times. ⁓ But there have been quite a few ⁓ positive highlights. I think when we first ⁓ developed in 2012,

Shelley E. Kohan (07:56)
True.

Cyndi Rhoades (08:18)
Adam and I had met and I told him the challenge that we were trying to overcome around textile recycling and polyester and cotton. And so we carried out a proof of concept in the lab where he went away, did all of his science stuff. It took about, I think it was about six months. ⁓ And…

At the end of it, we had some vials of polyester that were recaptured from textiles and we thought, wow, this is the bee’s knees. We thought, okay, great. How are we going to fund this now? Because it’s so early stage and… ⁓

We asked ourselves, right, whose problem are we solving? Well, this is the retailers. The retailers are the ones who are producing these products. They’re selling them to their customers. And then that’s it, end of story. And we knew it around in 2012 that…

sustainability had started taking traction. It was early days, but there were companies leading the way. And so at that point we said, okay, right. We hopped on a plane. We went to Sweden, to Stockholm, where H ⁓ are based and headquartered. And we spoke to the team there and said, look, we think we’ve got part of a solution here to textile recycling. They were super excited, very supportive. They came on board as an investor.

And that led us down the path. And from there, it’s been kind of bumpy and rocky. And at every stage, you always run out of money. You’ve got to find new investors. We started working with Caring from the industry in France, a luxury company. They came on board to support developments. And then in 2018, we attracted more investors, which we kind of, I think it was a bit of a fluke because we thought, oh great, there are a couple of brands wanting to put money in.

Shelley E. Kohan (09:57)
It’s so true.

yeah, yeah.

Cyndi Rhoades (10:18)
And

after that, we saw about every brand under the sun and never raised any more money from them. That was really tough. And so we then said, OK, right. We know the answer of strategic investors because venture capital ⁓ just does not invest at that stage. And so it’s too long. Exactly. The runway of tech.

Shelley E. Kohan (10:36)
Because it’s too long, right? The payback’s too long, right? Yeah, yeah, that’s a challenge.

Cyndi Rhoades (10:42)
Exactly. Developing a new product you can do in three to six months and you’ve got it on the shelf.

When it comes to a manufacturing process or a chemical process, I mean, it’s a good, it can take 10 to 15 years to go from lab to your first plant. And that’s where we’re at now. ⁓ I stepped outside of the business a couple of years ago because Warren again was moving into an industrial phase and that’s still getting closer to market and closer to a first plant. ⁓ And then I stupidly decided to set up another company to

Shelley E. Kohan (11:00)
Right.

Cyndi Rhoades (11:20)
to tackle the next big problem, is how are we going to feed all of these textile to textile recycling plants in a way that they need?

And at the moment we have plenty of end of use textiles, but they’re not being collected and sorted in the way that’s needed. Economically viable, they’re being exported to be sorted elsewhere. So I focused my next ⁓ couple of years, which we’re doing right now, on ⁓ automated sorting and pre-processing. So these are facilities that will take in end of use textiles, separate them by fiber composition, chop them up, get them into feedstock that can then go to recycle.

Shelley E. Kohan (11:39)
Yeah.

Cyndi Rhoades (12:02)
like worn again. And there are many, many more bubbling up around the planet now, which is great.

Shelley E. Kohan (12:05)
That’s amazing.

That’s

great. I want to go back to something you said. And I think, you know, when you look at leadership skills, I mean, you flew to Switzerland or Sweden, right, to meet with H And so like part of your big strategy is you have to get these investors and you have to get brand partners and you kind of have to get a lot of people in different.

Cyndi Rhoades (12:20)
Yep.

Shelley E. Kohan (12:32)
areas and functions to support what you’re doing. So what type of leadership skills did you have that you were able to use to make all this happen? And in what I think, I know it seems like a long time, but when I look back in a very short amount of time, you’ve got a lot of support.

Cyndi Rhoades (12:50)
I think it’s important, there are a few things in particular. think building a business that aims to drive an industry that doesn’t quite yet exist means you have to have vision and you have to…

kind of have the ability to look into the future and work backwards and say, what does it look like? Where is it we’re trying to get to? And then working backwards, what are the practical steps for getting there and who do we need to bring together to make that happen? And from our perspective, it’s always been an ecosystem approach. You have to…

connect with the brands because ultimately they’re selling the products. They need the supply chain to provide materials. You have to involve the end of use textile, post-consumer textile supply chain, the collectors and the sorters. You have to involve industry associations, like everyone’s needed. So kind of having a bird’s eye approach is very important. ⁓

I think raising investment for a startup in a nascent industry also

means that you need to look at strategic partners. Not just in the finance, but those strategic partners that can help you roll it out. And they’re going to benefit from it because maybe they play a role in it or they’re a key ⁓ partner in that. I think, you know, an investment approach that helps deliver the rollout phase is really important. ⁓ Maybe a cliched one, but really important is

making sure you have the right team.

And I would be the first to admit that I’ve made mistakes on that. ⁓ that’s okay. Making mistakes and having the right people on board ⁓ is part of it. ⁓ One of the key lessons I learned with team and people is if you have hired wrong, don’t wait. Pull the plug early because you need to have people who believe in the vision.

Shelley E. Kohan (15:00)
⁓

Cyndi Rhoades (15:06)
to go a different path or they’re not quite on board, it’ll mess up your entire strategy. So I think that was definitely, ⁓ it’s an important aspect of running a business that you want to get everyone on board with. ⁓

Shelley E. Kohan (15:24)
That’s great advice.

Cyndi Rhoades (15:27)
It is cliche because you hear it all the time and it’s really hard when you’ve hired people in and you think okay this isn’t working. Try to fix it but if it doesn’t work you have to pull the plug easily because it will distract and if you’re a small startup company it really throws you off kilter and it confuses everyone so that’s a big one. I think the other, ⁓ know, if you’re in a startup or a small company another key skill is to be able to

adapt to change when you’re observing what’s happening and learn to pivot when it’s needed. ⁓ think that that’s anything could change during the course of your company internally or externally and when you see the market change in a way that you don’t expect you need to

take a step back and say, okay, we’ve got to do things differently. I everyone experienced that during the time of COVID, but it could happen in so many different ways. So yes, being able to adapt to change was an important one.

Shelley E. Kohan (16:33)
And I like how you said while you were in the moment, because that’s key.

and we set these things in motion and then we feel like we’re very rigid, but you really can’t be, you have to be able to pivot along with what’s happening in front of you at the time. So that’s great. So you’ve accomplished a lot in our industry. So I’m gonna name a few things. mean, you were in 2023, you got an honorary doctorate from University of Arts in London for contributions of driving forward textile circularity. In 2021, you were selected as the global honoree for conscious fashion camp.

campaign from the Fashion Impact Fund. In 2020, you became Unreasonable Fellow and awarded the PCI-AW outstanding contribution to the textile industry. And in 2019, you were a finalist for the World Economic Forum Circular Leadership Award. And that’s just to name a few. But what are you most proud of?

Cyndi Rhoades (17:32)
Ooh.

That’s a funny question. think winning the awards have always been about bringing more attention to what we’re doing. I think it’s when people see awards, they think, yes, credibility. For me, it’s all about let’s bring more attention to this area. Let’s get more people involved in it. So it’s been a means to an end. I would say that the conscious fashion campaign

where ⁓ all of the 10 awardees, we got our videos and our companies up in Times Square, which was so much fun. I don’t know if anyone noticed it or took it in, but it was a fun thing to happen. And it kind of validates that you in terms of what you’re doing and that other people recognize it. think sometimes it’s just nice to say, well done, know, that’s great. ⁓

Shelley E. Kohan (18:17)
It’s so fun.

Cyndi Rhoades (18:35)
On the, I’m very proud of the honorary doctorate. had my family from Ohio come to London. I never graduated from university. So for me, that was a real ⁓ privilege to have that honor. And again, to say, to be recognized for what you’re doing and that it actually has meaning. But I think most of all, what am I proud of? It’s less about me and our companies. It’s more about the industry and how

Shelley E. Kohan (18:40)
You should be. Yep.

Cyndi Rhoades (19:05)
far the industry has come.

It’s not fast enough, but the fact that, you know, 10 years ago, none of this stuff was even being discussed. It was on the fringes and now it is in the mainstream. It’s a challenging time right now because company focus is on bottom line and sustainability and circularity for some has become back burner, but for the smart ones, they realize that the future of resources will affect their bottom line. So the smart ones.

Shelley E. Kohan (19:10)
Yeah.

Mm.

Cyndi Rhoades (19:38)
ones are still engaging and actually advancing ⁓ in this area.

Shelley E. Kohan (19:43)
Which

is great. So ⁓ tell me a little bit about some of the challenges you faced on your path to leadership and how did you overcome these? And do you think being a female leader in your field was a challenge?

Cyndi Rhoades (19:57)
⁓ Well, first of all, I would say that ⁓ I don’t look at my job as work. It’s definitely a challenge and you come across them every day. And I know that what we’re working on may not be solved in my lifetime. I think we’re going to make a lot of progress. ⁓ I do think that

Shelley E. Kohan (20:09)
Yeah

Cyndi Rhoades (20:26)
you know, when you’re doing something that’s a real struggle and it’s not an obvious, you’re not producing a widget or a product that people just buy, you’re actually trying to change the way an industry is producing and consuming. That you really have to… ⁓

You have to believe in your vision and your mission and the why. And that’s what keeps me going is the why. That’s what keeps me going. ⁓ I’m also very inspired by the people. So many of the people in our industry are… Well, it’s funny because circularity, if you look at pretty much everyone in this kind of sector of textiles, most of them are women. ⁓

And definitely in the early years when circularity was forming and you know there were startups, were entrepreneurs working within companies, you know, it started to blossom a good 10 years ago. Just so many of them are female and it’s funny because it makes you think what is it about circularity? It’s a better way of doing things. It’s a more intelligent use of resource use.

Shelley E. Kohan (21:18)
That’s interesting.

Cyndi Rhoades (21:45)
it takes into consideration not just bottom line, but society, better jobs, better livelihoods, and the environment. And I don’t want to put…

any men down because this is, it’s a growing area and we need everyone working on this problem and being part of the solution. But I think it’s interesting to see that maybe it was born from women, but I think it’s up to all in society to be part of this solution.

Shelley E. Kohan (22:19)
That’s

so interesting because in our industry as a whole outside of just circularity, but the whole fashion industry, there’s not a lot of female leadership at the top. So there’s something that prevents us from.

you know, really making it to the top. So it’s great to hear that in this little sector, and it’s not really a little sector, but it’s a very impactful sector, that it’s, you know, there’s a lot more women leaders. So it’s good to hear that. So as you kind of went through your entire career, did you have any mentors or role models for you that influenced how you led or how you lead today?

Cyndi Rhoades (22:57)
interesting question and I thought long and hard about this one and I didn’t have one particular person. think if I had to go for…

An answer on that, maybe not the most conventional response, but I have always admired Lisa Simpson from The Simpsons. So she’s a cartoon character, but she leads with conviction, with empathy, and she’s not afraid to stand up for what she believes in. ⁓

I’m definitely louder than Lisa Simpson is and more energetic maybe, but that’s why she inspires me and she reminds me that good leadership also means slowing down, listening, leading with values and not just driving forward.

Shelley E. Kohan (23:48)
I love that. love that. So Cyndi, I have to ask you as a prominent leader in the industry, how do you prioritize your time? And more importantly, how are you like deciding which projects to work on? You must get a lot of different projects coming at you. How are you picking and choosing how to spend your time?

Cyndi Rhoades (24:05)
Well, the vision is very clear and how we get there.

isn’t as clear and it’s going to take lots of different approaches and solutions. So whenever I come up against a new potential relationship with a new company, if that company and that potential project fits into the vision, then 100 % I’m all go because we, to get to this end road, however long into the future it is, we need everyone participating.

So I stay on track, I stay on mission. If it creeps away from that, it’s not the right project ⁓ to be working on. So I think everything I do professionally is geared towards getting to this place and whatever that looks like, ⁓ that’s quite an easy specification for deciding what to work on.

Shelley E. Kohan (25:07)
That’s great, Cyndi. And I’ve met you a few times, and ⁓ you have this aura of like well-being and balance about you. Do you have any tips for future leaders? Like how are you able to maintain this very kind of calm, what seems to be a very well-balanced aura about yourself?

Cyndi Rhoades (25:28)
I’m giggling because I may give off a different impression than the reality, actually. I’d love to give some positive ideas on how to get good balance, but I wouldn’t say I’m a good example. I tend to live, eat, and breathe this passion, so I end up compromising and sacrificing other areas of my life, which I don’t recommend, but…

You know, it is super important.

to look after yourself, to eat well, to exercise, to be with friends and family, to be in nature and to laugh, maybe not all together at the same time. ⁓ So I do try and get that. And I am a big fan of scheduling, scheduling your time and blocking it out. And if you haven’t finished a task within a certain time period and you’ve got something scheduled for yourself just after,

go for yourself. You’ve got to focus on that because when you come back to your work, if you aren’t healthy, if you are not sound in your mind, your work is going to is going to pay for it. so not the best ⁓ example myself. ⁓ Time off and time in nature is the holy grail for sanity and for non burnout. So, yeah, I’m not the best. ⁓

magazine cover for that. But I think, you know, find your own way, find what works for you, and make sure you stick to it.

Shelley E. Kohan (27:07)
I love that and I love that going into nature. find that going into nature is very helpful. It kind of brings me back down. that’s great. So it does.

Cyndi Rhoades (27:14)
It clears your mind, it clears your mind,

it allows you to reconnect with yourself, with the world, and then when you come back to a problem, you see it totally different.

Shelley E. Kohan (27:27)
Certainly. Okay, so now we’re at the fun part of our broadcast where it’s called rapid fire questions. I’m just gonna throw these questions at you and I just want you to quick, quick, quick answer them. Okay, so tell me when you’re ready.

Cyndi Rhoades (27:41)
Okay, deep breath.

Shelley E. Kohan (27:45)
Okay, my first question is, what one piece of advice would you give to female leaders that are currently working?

Cyndi Rhoades (27:53)
Believe in what you’re building because conviction is magnetic. It will attract others.

Shelley E. Kohan (27:59)
Love it. What three tips would you give students, our emerging leaders?

Cyndi Rhoades (28:08)
Number one for me is don’t wait to feel ready. Jump in and figure it out as you go. That’s without a doubt. If you’re waiting to know the answers, you won’t do it. You’ll be too scared. So jump in. Secondly, do what lights you up. The best organizations and businesses come from passion and also a real need in the world.

And then thirdly, always have your sense of humor. Laughing will burn off any residual stress, ⁓ but it also makes achieving your mission so much more enjoyable. If you can’t laugh with your team, what’s the point?

Shelley E. Kohan (28:54)
Love it. So I’m going to ask you the next question, although I already know the answer to it, but I’m going to ask you anyway. And that is, what’s your legacy? What do you want to leave behind for the next generation?

Cyndi Rhoades (29:07)
I don’t know about legacy, but what I do know is I hope the baton, or how we say it in the UK, the baton is being passed on for me. That one day we’ll all look back and say,

Why did it take us so long to realize that we didn’t need virgin materials like oil and virgin cotton to make our clothes? We already have the resources around us. ⁓ All it takes is bit of ingenuity and companies, investors, innovators to make it happen. So I don’t know if that answered your question, but what was your answer for me on that?

Shelley E. Kohan (29:48)
I definitely think that you want to leave the world in a better place than you found it for our next generation. That’s very clear to me in your mission and everything you’re about. So for me, it’s very clear what your legacy will be. So, ⁓ last question. This can be fun too. Okay, ready? What is your secret power?

Cyndi Rhoades (30:04)
that’s very kind.

If I die and I do have a headstone, well, I will die. If I have a headstone, which I don’t know if I will, ⁓ the one thing I’d like written on it is determination. Because that is the one thing when you hear no time and time and time again, if you don’t have determination, you’re never gonna get there. So I think that’s for whatever reason in my DNA. ⁓

Shelley E. Kohan (30:45)
I love it. I love it. Thank you so much for being here with us and sharing your story. I’m sure our listeners will learn a lot from your story. So thank you.

Cyndi Rhoades (30:56)
Thank you.